Last night, George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley, interviewed on MSNBC’s “Countdown with Keith Olbermann”:
“[P]eople have no idea how significant this is. What, really, a time of shame this is for the American system. What the Congress did and what the president signed today essentially revokes over 200 years of American principles and values.
It couldn’t be more significant. And the strange thing is, we’ve become sort of constitutional couch potatoes. I mean, the Congress just gave the president despotic powers, and you could hear the yawn across the country as people turned to, you know, “Dancing with the Stars.” I mean, it’s otherworldly.
…People clearly don’t realize what a fundamental change it is about who we are as a country. What happened today changed us. And I’m not too sure we’re gonna change back anytime soon.”
The interview ended with a joke by Olbermann that may not have been that funny: “I’ll see you at Gitmo.” (Wouldn’t you know it there is already somebody selling “see you at Gitmo” T-shirts on the Web).
Tonight Olbermann will offer a special commentary on Bush, torture, and the loss of habeas corpus.
#1 by cassandra - October 18th, 2006 at 14:28
Well ,Vermont has had 2 sessions in the State legislature discussing succession, everybody thinks they’re kidding see, but they ARE NOT! I have many friends in VT. that would be perfectly willing to bail on this sinking ship of state, get rid of Federal subsidies, as long as it meant they could develop their own policies and ditch the federal mandates, It is real folks. Join the movement or die, and remember the call, DON’T TREAD ON ME!! Wait til after the election, if it is diebolded, then it is time to crack the whip, and move on those that cannot see the danger. FREEDOM IS A MINORITY EVENT! If you don’t get it, you fight like demons, so your kids won’t be enslaved. No amount money can cure that.
Most people are too dumb to be free, which is why we work more hours to sustain ourselves on a daily basis, than primitive man did hunting and gathering.
*How ironic that Utah was founded by Vermonters, Joe from Sharon, and Brigham from Whitingham, 10 minutes from my home. Looking at how the State of Utah operates it is little wonder that they were pariahs in their own birthplaces, Brigham not so much, we still respect him. It was joe screwing everyones daughters that really got most Vermonters pissed at him. That and his blasted money digging, it morphed into finding golden plates that’d kill ya if ya looked at ‘em. C’mon people, what would you do if someone told you that today? Answer: Sign ‘em up for the bush admin.
See history is a 2 way street, you have yours I have mine, fortunately I have the independent State of Vermont in my rear view memory, and KNOW tyranny when I see it. I always figured that if America is to be saved it will have to go back to the WELL, to find out what we’re supposed to be.
As my best friends Dad(old school VERMONT) used to tell us…Experience is the best teacher, and fools like you boys, will learn by no other,.. oh and before I forget, we can’t there(freedom) from here(tyranny) ….you gut ta go round the mountin.
#2 by Cliff - October 18th, 2006 at 16:57
Question for Ken (at the bottom)
I know I’ll be there (euphemistic Gitmo) The lack of outrage from Americans in general and the courageous patriots who voted for Bush is the most frightening.
So many of us Americans are so poorly educated in history, the Magna Carta and the intent of Consitution, we may well be screwed.
It’s funny, when I studied The East Block systems in college, and how dictatorial systems emerge, I always thought of the US as being so very far from possibly becoming one, I never even thought about it.
This event is not a step in that direction, it is the final piece. Bush may now start rounding people up legally.
Ken, will you come to my defense at the risk of joining me in my cell? Seriously! KEN, WILL YOU COME TO MY DEFENSE? YES or NO?
#3 by cassandra - October 18th, 2006 at 16:58
oops that’s… ya caint get there(freedom) from heah(tyranny).
#4 by cassandra - October 18th, 2006 at 17:35
Let him just try. I refer to Solzhenitzhens advice to simply destroy the people doing the rounding up with pots pans or whatever.
What is the matter with you Utah Americans that support bush? I can promise you that if this comes to pass, your names will be written in stone as TRAITORS. You that have sat at the right hand of bush and co. as they have dismantled the Constitution are what heated tar and chickens were made for. You can move after forfeiting your assets…to..we don’t care.
We will make a record of all of you, perhaps we can build a vault up in the mountains to store the names of INFAMY… FOREVER BEFORE GOD!!
If any of you imagine that such a thing as happened in Russia, or Germany will occur here, FEAR NOT!! LIVE FREE OR DIE!! The New Hampshire State motto, think they’ll bend over for bush as their fellows are secreted away? We must act now to build the information network that will alarm the populace when anyone who has spoken out is “disappeared”.
All you progressives, ever wonder what the 2nd amendment was for, clue in, it wasn’t for hunting, and sporting, it was to put the fear of God in leaders that would rob of us of our LIBERTY, and serve their tyrannical ways.
Beware all you westerners, if this tyranny is what you support expect the Damn Yankees to effect your end. We don’t need you here in our country based on the Rule of Law, in which no law made by anyone, or group,can violate the CONSTITUTION!!
INALIENABLE RIGHTS: RIGHTS THAT CANNOT BE DENIED!! WHAT PART OF THAT DOES ANYONE NOT UNDERSTAND?
bush has sworn an Oath to defend and uphold the Constitution, any other reasons he has claimed is just the workings of an illusionist playing tricks on feeble minds. WAKE UP!! Aw hell, it doesn’t matter the grown ups back east will take care of this fool and his minions, or is it take care of the minions and the fool.
Think about it…BECAUSE WE “AINT SKEERED!!
While we are under the tyranny of Priests [...] it will ever be their interest, to invalidate the law of nature and reason, in order to establish systems incompatible therewith.â€
ETHAN ALLEN, VERMONT HERO, and at times a miserable drunk, God bless him.
#5 by Ken Bingham - October 18th, 2006 at 18:47
Cliff
Yes, I would come to your defense since you are not a terrorist, but we are not imprisoning US citizens at Gitmo. We are holding foreign terrorists that are not legally entitled to Habeas Corpus protections and not even the Geneva Convention requires it. You say you are a student of history then you should know there have been instances during national emergencies where Habeas Corpus was suspended even for US citizens. The US Constitution does allow it in certain cases.
“The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” (Article One, section nine).
The war on terror is a threat that is just as great if not even greater than anything we have ever faced. It is more likely that conservatives would be the ones rounded up and put into internment camps if leftists take over our government. In that case would you come to my defense Cliff?
#6 by Caveat Emptor - October 18th, 2006 at 19:01
Cliff, my man, barely one in three can even stomach our ‘ usurper in chief’. We ain’t goin nowhere. Sure they’ve done some wicked scary sh*t, but that’s all the more reason to pour it on right about now. Get out the vote. Show these courageous Dem candidates we’ve got thier back! These nuts are going down! Ken’s a friend, a bit wackey at times, but he’s not gunning for anyone. As far as having all free-thinkers shipped of to Gitmo, you’ve seen how this admin works, They’ll change the name from the usa to gitmo and then return to your regularly scheduled program. They’ve really got nuthin,..cept fear, which needs very much to be checked.
#7 by Caveat Emptor - October 18th, 2006 at 19:12
Sorry about the typos. I’ve lingered in the reply box, correcting and editing, really polishing, only to find that the server has left the building. Won’t do that again. So I’m presently putting a shine on my keyboard skills. Of course, the bottom-line message is that, ‘Stay the course’ is no longer in operation, FEAR NOT.
#8 by Richard Warnick - October 18th, 2006 at 19:33
Ken wrote: “The war on terror is a threat that is just as great if not even greater than anything we have ever faced. ”
I don’t agree. The last time habeas corpus was suspended was 135 years ago by President Grant, ironically also on October 17th. Grant was dealing with the aftermath of a rebellion. Since then, the USA has coped with many threats greater than Al Qaeda.
As for imprisonment of US citizens, surely everyone knows about Jose Padilla, born in Brooklyn, NY. He’s been in jail since May 2002, held without charge and allegedly tortured. Fortunately for Padilla, habeas corpus allowed his lawyer to challenge the government’s case.
#9 by Caveat Emptor - October 18th, 2006 at 20:16
Ok, Jenni, a preemptive comment just for you. ‘Show the courageous Green Party candidates as well, that thier ideas and forward thinking is appreciated as well. Onward!’
#10 by Nate Smith - October 18th, 2006 at 20:47
Ken writes, “. . . but we are not imprisoning US citizens at Gitmo. We are holding foreign terrorists that are not legally entitled to Habeas Corpus protections and not even the Geneva Convention requires it. ”
Ken, thank you that we can all now be 100% that citizens of the American Empire are the priveleged elite of the earth in a formal, legal way. Now, let me remind you of the remaining 94% of the people’s of this world. What do you say of them? Are they all “terrorists” or “unlawful enemy combatants?” Perhaps they (the aliens) are all potential terrorist threats? Let us all take a moment and answer these questions for ourselves.
If we are fighting an actual “global war” in a legal sense does that not require application of the rules of war? Geneva Conventions? Rights of prisoners of war to humane treatment? Is there really a war going on here? Oh, yes. In fact, I see we have several wars going on here? Or would they be invasions and military occupations of 2 other nations? Hmmmm. Does this mean that the people of any nation we invade that do not UNCONDITIONALLY SURRENDER become unlawful enemy combatants, Ken? Hmmmm.
How about a contemporary history lesson. August 30th, 2005 the winds came and the sea rose and a day and a half later the floodgates were liberated from their toils. In a matter of 3 days President Bush through his good ol’ pal, Heckuva Job Brown, he had not only left New Orleans to die, he also secured permission to declare MARTIAL LAW and institute through his Naziesque Dept of Homeland Security and Governor Landrau. Suddenly, not only was secret arrest and indefinite detention possible but extrajudicial executions took place throughout the city.
Blackwater Security was hired by the Dept of Homeland Security to “restore law and order” to the city. They are a heavily armed mercenary firm that does contract security work in Iraq and the United States in some cases. They are essentially a privately owned paramilitary with ATF III permits and government authorization to access fully automatic rifles, machine guns, explosives etc.
This “Military Commissions Law” fools us into thinking it is about habeus corpus, protection from self-incrimination, right to legal counsel etc. In fact, Ken the so-called “left” and “right” of the spectrum support the generous “protections” this law offers people the government is hiding away. The problem is not so much that the process is fixed, unjust, abusive and tyrannical. Of course any lover of liberty can see that it is. No, the real problem here is that the Congress is once again covering for the aggregious war crimes and crimes against humanity of the United States.
But most importantly, the Congress has given George W. Bush the authority to detain ANYONE citizen or non-citizen that is an enemy combatant in “circumstances that may require . . .” and detain that person in secret. If the law stands there will be no process to enforce a judicial review. A US citizen may have right to counsel, to confront evidence, not incriminate themselves only if they get to a day in court. If they are secretly detained by all the President’s men then who is going to enforce that?
#11 by Caveat Emptor - October 19th, 2006 at 16:25
Everybody must get detained!
#12 by cassandra - October 20th, 2006 at 12:45
America, now that everyone “cant standja” it may as well be one big detainee camp. Hurry up, hustle to that job, ya wage slave, and watch what you say…you can lose your livlihood at any time, we’ll send it to some low wage dictatorship…or replace you with a button…or an illegal, or an outsourced foreigner, or whatever we choose, you are lucky we don’t charge you for air, ya g;damned mouth breathers. with love; the admin.
#13 by OneNephi - October 21st, 2006 at 18:22
Ken,
Where do you get your info from? How the flip do you know that every detainee held at GTMO is a terrorist? How do you know, Ken? Habeas has been around since the Magna Carta, and for good reason. It’s misinformed bludgeon-heads like yourself that allow this current disaster of an administration to rape such rights, long since held near sacred. That’s right, Ken, I said RAPE. Get it? It’s slavish “feed me more talking points, Karl Rove” morons like yourself that are allowing this great country to go swirling down the toilet of misery at the hands of Chimpus. You are PATHETIC and a loser, too, for not having the balls to take a principled stand on the issues that every thinking person with a brain in his or her head in this country has come to realize, comprehend and understand! I intend to hold you personally responsible when our soldiers begin to receive reciprocal waterboard, or similar, treatments. WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU BRAIN-DEAD SLAVISH CHIMP-SUPPORTING UTAHN!
PS. Are you buying property in Central America like Bushco is? If not, you may want to get on the bandwagon before you lose out!
PPS. Gosh, I sure do feel better now. Sorry if I offended you, Ken.