Cliff LyonRight-Wing Blogs Downgraded to ‘Junk’
Unclaimed Territory - by Glenn Greenwald: The “credibility” of the right-wing blogosphere
This thoroughly documented analysis of the right-wing blogoshere as it is today, is so conclusively damning, it conjures up shadows of the Soviet era propaganda machine.
I haven’t found a similar analysis of the MilBlog world, though I have noticed in my travels that even the biggest ones are smaller than OneUtah, a very small blog in the progressive world.
January 14th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
What is a MilBlog?
January 14th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
This is a must read. Perfect description of what you find at ASP —
“They operate in packs, constantly repeating each other’s innuendo and expanding on it incrementally, and they then cite to each other endlessly in one self-feeding, self-affirming orgy of links, as though that constitutes proof.”
Sound familiar? How long can this last?
January 14th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Hmmm, also sounds like the same thing you do here. But I’m sure Glenn Greenwald is the true authority on this matter. I had better just cut my losses.
January 14th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
It’s been said that left-wing media criticism is all about getting the news to reflect the truth, while right-wing media criticism is intended to destroy the credibility of journalists so that when they do report the truth no one will believe it.
January 14th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
I just spent an hour looking at all of the 62 milblogs on the Soldiers Perspective blog roll. (’required reading’). With the exception of Blackfive (the biggest) only 7 had a post in the past 24 hours and the total number of comments on top posts were 14 - THAT TOTAL!
With approx 500 uniques users/day (per CJ) ASP really is one of the biggest. As far as I can see, only blackfive is bigger.
I’d say Milblogging is dying a fast death.
January 14th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Cliff from over here just dropped by and left a comment at my place, so I came over to look. Hey, they said I had a nice blog… how could I not come visit?
Cliff says: I just spent an hour looking at all of the 62 milblogs on the Soldiers Perspective blog roll. (’required reading’). With the exception of Blackfive (the biggest) only 7 had a post in the past 24 hours and the total number of comments on top posts were 14 - THAT TOTAL!
I’m a milblogger, and one on that list. I admit to being confused, however, by the comment on size, traffic, etc.
I had five posts today (a slow day for traffic) and 4 yesterday (the slowest day for traffic). And yeah, comments are usually pretty slow on weekends. One thing about my place - since I don’t allow moonbattery or wingnuttery, most of the “dittoheads” and trolls (who drive up comments) don’t bother. Which is fine by me. I don’t need a whole lot of people saying “Yeah!” “Right on!” or, “You’re too stupid for words!” etc. Generally when I get comments, they have some substance to them. Unless we’re being silly, which I also encourage. Sheeeeeet, gotta have some fun or why bother?
On the Truth Laid Bear’s Ecosystem, I’m number 36 - this blog isn’t listed, so that’s not necessarily a representative comparison, admittedly. And the spread in traffic between 1 (currently Instapundit) and me is… large.
On Technorati, OneUtah is ranked 62,693, with 387 links from 54 blogs.
My blog is ranked 2,404 with 3,350 links from 743 blogs. I just scored a link from Time Magazine this week. I’ve done call-in radio with the BBC 4 and Hugh Hewitt. Not as a caller, but as in a phone-in interview.
Our current unique visits sits at 1,624 per day, 11,000 a week, give or take. 1.6 million and counting.
Blackfive and Mudville are both far larger than I in that regard. Matt (Blackfive), averages 6K or so uniques a day, last I checked. Greyhawk, over at Mudville, is even larger.
My blog ranks 462,318 in Alexa, OneUtah doesn’t show up at all. Which, again, doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
You guys may be huge, I don’t know - but in the metrics I use… well, you aren’t.
What am I missing? And that’s an honest question, not a snark.
As for milblogging dying a fast death - like any niche, we’re bound to suffer contraction when that which makes us interesting dies down. Or, becomes… less popular. In a sense, that would be a good thing - for the wars to die down enough that the military goes back to taking a back seat in the news.
As a retired soldier, I can say that with a straight face. Being shot at is certainly exhilarating, but it’s really not that much fun.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Thanks John for the specs,
OneUtah is only 1 year old, it began to grow fast in October from about 300/day uniques to ave of 3000 these days.
I posted on your blog and two others from the ASP list. The others look dead.
more later
Cliff
January 14th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
John,
Question: Why do you moderate?
BlackFive is the only blog in your class that doesn’t. Do you think that has anything to do with its success?
January 14th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I moderate literally because I just this morning finished upgrading to MT 3.3, where moderation is the default, and we’re still tinkering.
As for why others do - I don’t know what kind of jerks show up at your place, but many milblogs gets some really nasty stuff. My first visitor from your blog (today, besides you) just left a badly spelled note calling the President a “chimpus bufoon’ which isn’t the kind of stuff that’s really very useful. That said, I approved the comment.
Since I don’t encourage the kind of commentary that generates it, I don’t get that much - but, there is another side to that.
If you don’t keep an eye on it - you get tagged by net-nanny software for the foul language.
It’s very hard to get untagged.
I’ll unmoderate after we’re done tweaking and I get around to it. So, in my case, it’s literally an artifact of today (see the “upgrade” post) but for others, it’s most likely because of tedious commenters who just show up to spew filth and fling dung.
Milblogs are decreasing, no doubt. Part of that, as I believe I mentioned in an email, is because the services are blocking access. Another is that the services are cracking down on active-duty milbloggers. A good chunk of that is weak commanders who fear criticism, but another good chunk of that is real, true, OPSEC violations.
OPSEC greatly affects my blogging. The Army, at least, is trying to cope with that a little bit by allowing blogging of sorts on the inside of it’s major portal, AKO. But let’s face it - most bloggers aren’t interested in that level of supervision.
My traffic is directly related to how political I get. The more political, the higher the traffic. The more I stick to topics military, firearms, and historical, well, then I hang steady where I am now.
The more political I get, the more I get of the dung-flingers, of both sides of the political divide. It gets tedious to shoo them away.
If I was a traffic monger, my blog would be very different.
But as I said in a previous email - for me, it’s now how many, but who, reads.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Anthony,
Did you read Richard’s post below yours? He’s right you know.
You just attacked Glenn Greenwald probably without reading his post. Greenwald produces conclusions based on fact. He documents every statement/conclusion. Did you find one that is not documented or erroneous.
No opinion involved. Just conclusion supported by fact.
And actually Glenn Greenwald IS an authority on the subject. I’m guessing you no nothing about him? No? Am I wrong?
If you hope to be successful in college, you will have to bravely enter this new world.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Good question. I just posted over at John’s and noted, too, that the blog censors - i.e., moderates - comments. I wonder why?
January 14th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Nephi - if you read all of today’s posts… you’d see we just upgraded, literally this morning, to MT 3.3
I assumed moderation was the default and I hadn’t gotten around to changing it - so I went and checked. It’s set to let anyone post, yet obviously isn’t.
A gig for my blog-mechanic to check.
As for your comment, I did somewhat snidely snark your spelling… but really - if you’ve not got anything more substantive to offer than you did - why bother commenting at all?
I did wander over to your place and discovered that ‘chimpus’ is indeed just usage. 8^)
January 14th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
John,
Thanks for your thoughtful and informative response.
I have an observation I’d love to get your thought on: I’ve noticed that when someone states a contrarian view on a right-wing blog (ie. Chimpus), the other readers pile on big time and the thread turns to shit.
But when the same happens on a left-wing blog, people tend to ignore them and the jerks go away.
Have you noticed that?
January 14th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, above, John. While we (and me, in particular) may refer to the president using less than flattering language (e.g., my passing reference to “chimpus bafoon”), it is hard to argue that he dosn’t deserve such colorful descriptions. Indeed, while I am continually referred to as traitor, weak-kneed, defeatist, and a whole host of other, even more colorful, terms by Bush supporters (ASP folks are quite adept at these characterizations), I believe I ought to be able to refer to the president as Chimpus. I could, but generally refrain from, all him much worse, yet deserved, things.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
I would say that it happens on both sides of the aisle, it’s not just a right-wing phenom. You notice it on right-wing blogs because they are flaming things you perhaps think are simply self-evident truths (like Nephi’s comment at my place), whereas on your side of the aisle, they are just being offensive jerks.
I didn’t really mind Nephi’s comment (and I don’t often snark spelling, simply because commenters don’t get a chance to edit after posting, like I do) but when you swoop in and drop a badly spelled insult with no other real value in the comment… sometimes I get snarky!
I left him alone on heros versus heroes… gimme a break.
It may also be who you read.
But, as an example, Malkin turned her comments off because of the *astounding* filth and horror people left there. People coming in from the left.
I have no doubt that the same happens from the right - I don’t notice it because I don’t read widely on the far left, and have managed to chase off those Freepers who think I’m really a lefty because I’m not right-wing enough.
January 14th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Ah, Nephi - I long ago quit policing other people’s blogs.
I only take responsibility for mine.
If you’re civil at my place, and one of my regulars isn’t civil back - I’ll whack ‘em.
If the thread degenerates to mindless namecalling (check my intro text on the comment box) I’ll shut down the thread altogether.
Once it gets to name calling, it isn’t a thread anymore.
I don’t delete comments (other than spam) often, but I’ll do it to maintain civilized discourse. Just like there are rules in debate, I’ve got rules in the comments.
That’s acutally allowed us to have decent discussions.
I don’t deny my place is a right-wing blog, and most people who hang out there lean to the right - but we have some decidedly left-wing people who are comfortable there - precisely because I rule the Castle as a benevolent despot.
I dislike shouting and discord. I encourage discourse.
That said, it does keep things bland (unless WereKitten and Maggie are getting randy) and that does suppress traffic. Which is fine. I’m not selling anything in terms of ads, so I’d rather have the calm.
It must work somehow - I get invited to be a guest on the radio, to guest lecture in colleges on the subject of blogging, and get links from national news sites.
I’m comfortable where I’m at. If I were in it for the money, or real power, I’d have to go the route Moulitsas or Coulter et. cie, go - and that ain’t me.
I may be a retired combat veteran, but I can’t stand that kind of conflict.
January 14th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Again John, I much appreciate your reflective responses.
I’m more an activist than blogger.
It seems true for a good part of the progressive blogoshere.
You’ll quickly find I have a particular facination with the conservative mind…at the point where it get really tribal.
This interview with John Dean was a clarifying moment for me.
I’d almost pay for a thoughtful response from a self-styled, conservative MilBlogger even though you very clearly do not fall into that ‘without” category.
Thank you John!
January 14th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
John of Arggg. Thanks for stopping in with your behind the scene exposure of the blog host. For me this is a pleasant aside to the political brawling I so often encounter. (By chioce, I’m afraid). It is also heartening to know that that side of the isle has such an intelligent, informed, and if warm isn’t offensive, warm individual.
January 14th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Caveat you beat me to it, I was just going to say, fascinating, and refreshing. We are all learning here and those at ASP also, at an accelerated pace.
Don’t think what has gone on at ASP has no impact. My gut feeling is that it does, likely more than we imagine. I like those guys despite the BS. They are loyal to each other, and that is a force to be reckoned with, and something you hope can be incorporated amongst all of us.
January 15th, 2007 at 5:55 am
Cliff - regarding Dean and tribalism.
I can only assume you don’t wander through Democratic Underground or many of the diarists at Kos.
You want to see naked tribalism? Wander through - without your “Hey, these guys are on my side!” glasses on, and try to read them from the other side.
You want comments moderation? Try to be a right wing voice (a reasoned one, not an agitprop troll) and see how long before you are banned from DU.
The point here isn’t one of tit-for-tat or ‘gotcha’-trading.
Rather, I’m suggesting that perhaps you either aren’t looking very closely at your side - or you aren’t looking at them critically.
Which makes sense - I don’t read a lot of right-wing stuff. I already know they think much like I do on many (but certainly not all) issues and I don’t *need* to read them. But I read enough of them to know we have embarrassing ogres in caves out there. I read the middle on both sides (because that’s where the Center of Gravity is -the common ground) and pay attention to those voices more to the left - because that’s where *my* threats come from.
What has become obvious to me over the years I’ve been blogging is waaaay too many of us live in bubbles. We live in self-reinforcing small groups… and then we gaze in horror when we run into places where our worldview doesn’t hold sway.
A perfect example is either political party when they hold power.
Democrats were shocked, shocked! I say, when they lost power, and couldn’t regain it - and their like-minded thinkers in the TV media (remember the national newsie who basically called the 94 elections a redneck temper tantrum?) when they suddenly find they’ve been left behind by the Great Muddle in the Middle who have swung the other way. Then, largely because (like it or no) the MSM trends liberal, they stayed stuck in their rut, really unable to change their message, and gaining little traction with the voters, and staying out in the wilderness.
Then, finally, the Republicans, stuck in their own ever-hardening bubble, fail to listen to the people who are going to do the voting (and their own base, in terms of fiscal conservatives), find themselves in the same boat - shocked, shocked! that suddenly, sweepingly, they are out of power. For most of the same reasons that the Democrats were.
And now, I suspect, the cycle will continue.
The same is true in blogs. The bubbles are just smaller - which is more dangerous to those who won’t look at things critically.
But I think, overall, the fragmentation of news among broadcast, cable, and blogs, actually will let you get a little closer to a more general appreciation of the state of the world - if you’ll take advantage of it.
You blog as an activist. I blog as an explainer. The tagline for my blog is “The home of two of Jonah’s Military Guys +1.” All three, myself, Dusty, and Bill, are retired warriors (and yes, I use that tribal term intentionally). I’m was an army artilleryman, ops planner, and WMD response specialist. Dusty was a A10 pilot, and Bill is a Vietnam-era helo pilot who retired out of the New Jersey Guard about a year ago. He’s the +1. Dusty and I got our start, so to speak, feeding explanations of what was going on during the March Upcountry - the fight to Baghdad. It was painful to both of us to read The Corner and listen to earnest, and incorrect, speculation. From that, Jonah Goldberg suggested we both blog - as did my wife, in my case.
For the record - I wasn’t in favor of invading Iraq. But once it started, I started commenting on it because so much of what I heard confidently bandied about by the talking heads was simply ignorance writ large. That is still mostly what I do - try to provide context. Now and again I do come out in support of something or against it - but it’s amusing how many antis will come by and assume that because I explain what’s going on, I must support it. I will caveat - once we started, I supported finishing it, and not just walking away from it - though there always comes the time when you might have to do just that.
Lord knows the post-war was handled badly, and those conditions were set pre-war. BTW, as an aside - there actually *was* a plan, modeled on the occupations of Japan and Germany - but Rumsfeld didn’t like it, and Bremer, well, Bremer’s a nice guy, but good lord. I digress.
I’m a gun collector, and another reason I chose to blog was to show that not everybody with 150+ firearms in their basement was a nut sitting in his chair with racks of AR15s and cases of ammo. I do have cases of ammo - but not for the same reasons…
And I’ve consistently called for More Heads! More Heads! over Abu Ghraib and such - while at the same time pointing out that we, in general, prosecute our own troops for misconduct more often and more thoroughly than just about any Army in history…
Then I do *act* as well, when appropriate. I’ve been involved in the criticism of the doctored photos - because they are generally of military subjects, which I know, involve photo-interpretation, which I have done professionally while in the service. It’s actually that role that got me on the University lecture circuit (which sounds a like a lot more than it is - I’ve done it… twice.).
My most activist thing is Project Valour-IT - raising funds (just over a million so far) via blogs, to provide laptops with voice-activated software for troops who have lost use a one or both hands or been blinded. Because of the nature of combat these last few years, we’ve given out over 800 laptops. We’ve finally gotten the VA to acknowledge the need, and they are trying to work it into their rehab programs, but hey, it’s the government (and trust me, they weren’t any better under Clinton than they are now in this regard, just in case you were gonna jump on that). That’s my kind of activism, and actually, it’s a lot of milblogger activism. If you read through the major milblogs (which is, in total blogging terms, being a medium fish in a small pond) you’ll see that a lot of what we do is support the troops stuff, especially the wounded troops. That’s our activism.
You have to remember, for the active duty blogger, there are *real* and *legal* restrictions on what they can and can’t say - officers more than enlisted (by law). So you aren’t going to see the same sort of thing you see from your side.
And this comment is completely out of control, and I’m out of time - I gotta get something up over at the Castle, or Cliff will ping me for not posting today… 8^)
Of course, I think I’ll cheat - and use a good chunk of this as a post…
January 15th, 2007 at 9:22 am
John, What might have been a digression on Rumsfield and Bremmer, is where we start. The question of how all this incompetence rose to the top, not only of our government, but as it flails, murders, and thrashes around, ultimately, in it’s own mind, to power over the entire planet. How so? I don’t see this discussion as supportive of left or right, but more as part of the informed populace attempting to reign in tyranny.
Your comments are very much appreciated.
January 15th, 2007 at 9:58 am
John,
I’d like to top post what you write this morning for Argghhh, on OneUtah with your permission of course.
You raise so many of the important issues that tend to get marginalized because of our (especially mine) tendency to be provocative.
But these are the issue (speaking for myself) that need to be discussed.
-
January 15th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Cliff,
This comment thread was a pleasant surprise. Now I hope you’ll think I’m not an anomaly in the conservative (or milblog) blogging world! Because of the absence of vitriol from any of the comments, I actually read every one of them.
John,
Thanks for your respectful contribution to the debate. The main thing I take from it is that there are kamikaze bloggers on both sides of the aisle, but that respectful discussion is much more productive. Most of us must admit, however, that we at least occasionally fall to the level of “blogging unproductivity” in this regard. Whenever I do, I wish I hadn’t.
January 15th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Frank, You AND John are a pleasant surprise. (FYI John, Frank served in Iraq and is a OneUtah Author).
The real anomalies are people who still support Bush and the war and can engage in critical thinking without dismissing the messenger as biased and identifying him/her as the enemy.
Admittedly a the expense of Utah readers, I have been using this blog to bear that thesis out and get it on the record.
Two recent examples:
PJ - Too bad it’s so biased as to be unbelievable
Cpl M - you should be scarred too because were coming after you jack ass fagot.
January 15th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Just like any fight where everyone has their backs up, there is alot of screaming and yelling at the beginning, and if it doesn’t come to blows, and thankfully it has not in our country, then if the parties have any intelligence, things quiet down and thinking and analysis of why you are so mad take over. It has taken quite a while for this to take hold for our Country, but I feel it coming.
We have all seen the raging fight blunted and then seen the two parties shake hands hug, and make peace. Sometimes these people become fast friends.
America is going to be OK, that is what I am feeling, we have stopped the fight and have started to think, now the fog of rage is abating. Good thing.
January 15th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Cliff Lyon. Now let me get this straight. Have you been posting under those nyms (PJ and Cpl M)? The highlited comments above and others? If so, this seems to effect not only your credibility, but calls into question derrogative impression of PJ and Cpl M. Say it isn’t so.
January 15th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
No Caveat. Not only would I never do that, I don’t need to. Though I take great pride in being able to provoke them with increasing predictably.
I will tell you that the last comment by Cpl M came from a different IP address than usual. I can’t control that.
PJ has always come from the same IP address.
In the interest of full disclosure, this comment from CJ really came from Nephi who was sitting in the same room with me late that night when he did it. (for which I erroneously took credit for unimportant reasons.
I hope this helps.
Caveat, I know my (and Nephi my friend NOT ME) recent games have tried your patience. I am well aware that most people could care less about these people and how they think. But for me its more than a hobby, and I beg your indulgence.
To that end, I really am more interested in engaging the more critical thinkers who support Bush and the War, But Frank and John will have to do for now even though they don’t really support Bush or the war, they still maintain a conservative’s reluctance to speak out loudly against either or, in another vein, a visceral distaste for Cindy Sheehan.
January 15th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Frank - I, um, don’t *always* live up to my lofty standards. But I usually manage to be somewhat funny when I do it.
This was intemperate for me, but I don’t regret the whuppin’ I gave out.
January 15th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Cliff, thanks for the explanation.
John, thanks for the link, I’ll stop over.
January 15th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Wow John, if thats a your idea of a whuppin, I better start apologizing in advance starting now and going straight through the rest of the week stopping only grunt out a growler.
This was my favorite line, “I don’t mind the commentary that attempts to ‘balance’ the story - but I do object to commentary that ignores what I said to make points.”
…and admirably high standard. I feel the same way, except I tend to completely ‘lose it’ when people do that to me.
January 15th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
[...] Frank and I agree on nearly everything despite his claim to the contrary.We were both, as I imagine most OneUtah readers were, pleasantly surprised to meet John of Argghhh! who came over from his MilBlog after I commented there during my evening stroll through the Milblogoshere. John swept in like a breath of fresh air with a series of honest and thoughtful comments (as blog master of one of the top Military blogs) on my favorite subject. [...]
January 17th, 2007 at 12:44 am
“If you’re civil at my place, and one of my regulars isn’t civil back - I’ll whack ‘em.”
Having been whacked I can tell you it isn’t nice when John does call you into the principle’s office. ‘The Big Boot’. ‘BEing sent to Castle Purgatory’. ‘The Privy Plack’. Metaphors for when I’ve gone too far and John’s about to yank posting and commenting privellages.
Note: I’m just generally abrassive and combative. To everyone. People I genuinely like over at Argghhh! can get an earful, and still be liked. Also, check over at GenX40, a center left Canadian blog. I get into trouble there, but often do make reasoned arguments there. I’m not rare either. Just profane.
But this type of statement tends to get me not only abrassive but on the warpath too: “The real anomalies are people who still support Bush and the war and can engage in critical thinking without dismissing the messenger as biased and identifying him/her as the enemy.” Sigh. Guess some of the commentary I put into the H&I posts just doesn’t get read.
Let me ask this. Do you see the inherent arrogance and condescenion? AS I have said, you may have a different rhubric but that doesn’t make you right. The simple ‘they can’t possiblely be serious’ thing is such a tribal type statement. ‘We are inherently right and those who can argue with us intelligently, though wrong, are so rare because they argue from a faulty position. It takes talent to do that!”
Reasonable people employing all their faculties and logically reasoning their way thru can come to wildly different conclusions—-and let’s not forget about doppler effects(what you know and where you are on a political spectrum distorts what you see, and thereby how you interpret it.).
We aren’t grey backed apes, after all.
January 17th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
[...] While our friends at OneUtah continue to claim that conservative media is failing, the left continues to prove otherwise. Liberal talk radio continues to fail on a daily basis, the largest liberal talk radio network Air America filed for bankruptcy. It seems that the conservative talk radio isn’t giving liberals enough air-time. Since the liberal media can’t make it on their own it is time for the government to get involved. It looks like the liberals need to force their opinions on us by making sure their voice is heard on conservative radio. Next thing you know I’ll be required to publish an opposing view point on my blog. Any liberals out their want to become an ASM writer? Any thoughts on this so called Fairness Doctrine? [...]