Occasional OneUtah author and Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson was scheduled to be on Hannity and Colmes tonight, but according to anonymous sources (me), Hannity chickened out after watching a video of Rocky speaking.
The Deseret News is reporting the whitewash story or maybe they just don’t know the real story.
Here it is:
Hannity and Colmes producers know Rocky. He’s been on Fox News before. Since his recent impeachment specific speeches and Senate testimony. Hannity and Colmes people have been back and forth with the mayor’s office daily for the past week planning this show.
Suddenly, someone from Fox leaves a “vague” message at 7:30am this morning on Patrick Thronson’s (Rocky’s spokesperson) voice mail canceling Rocky’s appearance.
What really happened is Sean Hannity chickened out. He’s been to Utah County several times. He figured a Utah mayor would be “easy pickins”. But late last night, Hannity was shown some vids of Rocky, and changed his mind.
The Faux News technique when dealing with anti-Bush issues is to bring on the most inarticulate, soft-spoken, spineless people they can find and then shout them down. Oops, wrong guy.
It’ll be interesting to see who they “use” to fill in the spot tonight.



#1 by Richard Warnick on March 8, 2007 - 2:32 pm
I had no idea Rocky was articulate enough to scare Hannity. I thought he was kind of a dull speaker, not inarticulate or “spinless” but not someone who offers good soundbites either.
#2 by Cliff Lyon on March 8, 2007 - 3:08 pm
Articulate enough? Watch this
Rocky would have made mince meat out of Hannity. I was with him this morning at a press conference at the U and there were three cameras in his face asking him about the impeachment stuff.
When they got to the subject of Hannity canceling, he was really disappointed and in response to one reporter he said something along the lines of ‘bring it on, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Savage, I’ll go on any of them.’
#3 by Nephi on March 8, 2007 - 3:38 pm
Rocky would have embarrassed Hannity to the point of crying out for mama on the air.
#4 by Ethan on March 8, 2007 - 3:39 pm
They cancelled because the segment was only a few minutes long and Mayor Anderson can’t even say his own name in under ten.
#5 by Outraged [former] Repug on March 8, 2007 - 3:41 pm
Ethan,
And what’s your point? Are you afraid of having the Repugs’ ass kicked by Rocky?
#6 by Ethan on March 8, 2007 - 3:46 pm
Oops! You caught me!
#7 by Bush's Brain on March 8, 2007 - 4:24 pm
Warnick is correct, when Rocky stands and reads a speech, he is one of the dullest speakers imaginable. He comes across as shrill and frenetic. But he can debate with the best of them…face it, he’s got a first-class mind. Give Hannity credit…he realized he would be overmatched.
#8 by Cliff Lyon on March 8, 2007 - 4:40 pm
Ethan,
Your dislike of Rocky is holding you back. It is also incongruous with your general political posture, no?
Who do you like in the upcoming mayoral election?
#9 by Ethan on March 8, 2007 - 5:01 pm
I haven’t decided who to support, I am still watching a few candidates very closely.
By the way, if you want to see this Rocky V. Hannity thing get good, tune in tonight at 8:10.
Also, it’s not that I DISlike the guy…
#10 by Cliff Lyon on March 8, 2007 - 5:06 pm
Nightside?
#11 by Ethan on March 8, 2007 - 5:09 pm
yep. Should be mucho funo
#12 by Cliff Lyon on March 8, 2007 - 5:31 pm
I’ve drawn ‘em out at Hannity.com
Some woman says: ”
Call him out Ethan! He’s a chicken shit. He’ll never come debate Rocky, because (love him or hate him) Rocky would kick his ASS!
#13 by Tim on March 8, 2007 - 9:36 pm
IT’S ON!! Rocky says hell yeah!!
#14 by Ken Bingham on March 8, 2007 - 10:34 pm
Rocky Anderson was on KSL radio tonight and the host played a sound bite of Shaun Hannity challenging Rocky to a debate. Hannity even said he would pay his own expenses to come to Salt Lake and duke it out with the Mayor. Rocky Anderson said he was willing to do it, so I guess Sean Hannity isn’t afraid to confront the liberal Mayor of Salt Lake after all. Regardless of which side you are on that will be a debate to watch. Hannity will deliver a knock-out punch proving that Rocky is no Rocky.
#15 by UtahPirateRadio on March 8, 2007 - 10:51 pm
I know that Mr. Hannity said that he would come out here, and I look forward to him keeping his word. But honestly, I don’t expect much more than the usual from Hannity where he polarizes issues that are only slightly (if at all) related to the subject at hand, and dogdes any issue that he would most certainly fail at presenting a strong case for.
Hannity will try to come out on top, but if he is to do that he will have to pull the usual bait and switch tactic that he is famous for.
I was on KSL Nightside tonight and I gave Rocky a pat on the back. I hope he bring more attention to this issue.
#16 by Richard Warnick on March 9, 2007 - 8:56 am
I’m intrigued by the offer from Hannity to pay his own expenses. Some may recall that when he came to speak at Utah Valley State College as an antidote to Michael Moore, Hannity said he would do it for free– but when his expenses were paid, he ended up getting more money than Moore.
#17 by Tim on March 9, 2007 - 8:57 am
Rocky will wail on this guy. Hannity is a bully with a ‘kill button’. Rocky will do much better in this forum. The ‘voting’ concerns me though, there will probably be more Hannity than Rocky fans show up, especially if Shaun pushes it on his show.
#18 by Ken Bingham on March 9, 2007 - 9:21 am
Tim
That is because there is a heck of a lot more Shaun Hannity fans than there are Rocky fans.
#19 by Cliff Lyon on March 9, 2007 - 9:57 am
Ken,
That is nothing to be proud of. Hitler had more fans too.
#20 by Tim on March 9, 2007 - 11:34 am
I don’t get where this knockout punch will come from Ken. Hannity will be on the ropes all night long defending this administrations ‘augmented intelligence’. If Rocky were smart, IMO, the knockout punch is ‘open borders in a war on terror’, especially with this audience. Rep. controlled all three braches of gov. and did nothing. Start the count.
#21 by Tim on March 9, 2007 - 12:09 pm
Oh yeah, this: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/06/the-daily-show-slams-bush-over-walter-reed-scandal/
and this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/national_security_letters
Aren’t helping Hannity, being the apologist he is. Rocky doesn’t have to be that good, the facts speak for themselves. Hannity will be balled up in the corner, and rocky will be dropping bomb after bomb. And if Hannity stays true to form, his defence will be “he just hates Bush and wants us to lose the war”. Pathetic. Happy hunting Rock!
#22 by Frank Staheli on March 9, 2007 - 3:32 pm
Sean Hannity stated that he personally didn’t know about Rocky’s appearance on the TV show. Rocky Anderson says he can understand how that could happen.
I’m listening to the rerun of the Nightside project segment (March
where Rocky is discussing Hannity’s challenge. I like some of the things Hannity stands for, and I like some of the things Rocky stands for, and some things. But I seriously agree with Rocky that in a debate scenario, where Hannity can’t avoid and change the issues, Rocky will win. The history (i.e. the truth) is in Rocky’s favor. It’s important that people don’t paint themselves into a corner with their dogmatic support of any particular politician or cause. With his support of Pres Bush, Hannity has painted himself into a tiny corner, and the paint is not drying.
#23 by Ken Schreiner on March 9, 2007 - 6:14 pm
Having been in TV for 30 years and seen this type of thing happen before, my guess is Hannity’s people weren’t ready. The Talking Points people have their fingers in this one. I think Frank’s theory is pretty good: it’s pretty hard to argue for failure. They got nothin’.
#24 by The Blessed Rope. on March 10, 2007 - 7:38 am
Hannity ‘aint hitler. He’s a pundit, never equate the 2. He commanded 250 active dividions, and an air force.
Hannity controls a radio show. Rocky is the mayor of a podunk city.
Gain some perspective.
#25 by Tim on March 10, 2007 - 1:08 pm
Hannity controls more than a radio show. Hannity controls the propaganda that comes from the administration. Hannity openly and deceitfully convinces us that submitting to loss of Habeas Corpus, wiretapping, state sponsored torture, tracking of bank records, medical records, transportation patterns, library use, internet usage, and opening our mail is patriotic and necessary to insure our security while opposing these losses of liberty is unAmerican. Without Hannity keeping public opinion divided, there would not be this administration in it’s current form. Hannity is the mouthpiece of the Mao, Stalin and Hitler.
#26 by Ken Schreiner on March 10, 2007 - 4:47 pm
That makes Hannity “Jokin’ Joe” Goebbels. Out of all the right-wing mouthpieces out there, he’s one of the least inflammatory with Scarborough jumping ship. But that’s changing. You can see the GOPhers getting their anger on. Losing Congress, Iraq, Scooter, etc. hurt. Losing America’s going to really smart. Who let the dogs out?
#27 by Tim on March 10, 2007 - 5:40 pm
I agree with that. Hannity reaches alot of voting Americans stuck in gridlock in our cities in the afternoon. Rush has the morning shift covered. O’Reilly used to have the evening shift here in Utah, then Lars Larson. I dig Nightside, for the most part. I’m not much of an FM guy anymore…except my favorite KRCL blocks.
#28 by Tim on March 11, 2007 - 12:32 am
Here is the hammer they beat us with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsqPeqhKJ7Q&mode=related&search=
To accomplish these:
State sponsored torture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irLosdf5Yp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql4WMQg-dJo
Loss of Habeas Corpus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIFqYVAOosM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXTDOI4Y6CI
Wiretapping:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/07/nsa-blocked-domestic-spying-whistleblower-and-pressured-la-times-to-kill-story/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGhcECnWRGM
Tracking of internet use:
http://www.grassrootsfreedom.com/gw3/articles-news/articles.php?action=view&CMSArticleID=969&CMSCategoryID=23
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2174524/republican-bill-calls-email
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.837:
Monitoring bank and credit records:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/14/cheney-dont-question-dont-criticize-and-iran-watch-out/
All of these civil liberty rollbacks in the name of national security, while this is going through under the radar:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=93580c44-451b-49ce-9b52-af9dd5bff31e&k=5536
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1570.asp
With the direct assistance of this administration. It boggles the mind.
#29 by UtahPirateRadio on March 11, 2007 - 11:03 pm
Hannity is the republican version of Howard Stern, ‘nough said.
#30 by Tim on March 12, 2007 - 5:18 pm
How so?
#31 by jeffro on March 16, 2007 - 6:23 am
Hannity is afraid of Rocky and he sure isn`t going to let him speak to his brainwashed audience.
So hannity offered to come here for a debate he now wants control over the broadcast. Why did he cancel the show where he did have the CONTROL the neocons crave. Hannity is a wimp.
#32 by schreinervideo on March 16, 2007 - 7:20 am
This really is about control. Remember the Bush/Cheney “town meetings?” The “Big Lie” created there is consensus. As Noam Chomsky wrote in “Manufacturting Consent,” it’s crucial for manipulative and secretive governments, corporations, etc. to create the illusion that the majority of people agree with them. TV is the perfect medium because you can manipulate the images i.e. audience, questions, content, lighting, makeup, even editing if it’s not live, and its non-interactivity and “coolness” as McLuhan defined it. Rove knows it, Hannity’s people know it (if he doesn’t know it himself). That’s why so many people crave the “good, old days” in America. Because consensus manufacturing was the product of a lapdog corporate media and manipulative government, most Americans lived under the illusion that racism, sexism, domestic abuse, child predation, Nazism, etc. were not problems. Ignorance was bliss. For example, almost no one outside the Washington press corps knew Roosevelt had a crippling disease until he died from it. It’s Propaganda 101 and we were educated in it. Thank God for the Internet! Long may she wave!
#33 by UtahPirateRadio on March 18, 2007 - 11:17 pm
I relate Hannity to Howard Stern, but maybe that is too narrow.
Hannity seems to me like a mix between Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern, as if they mixed up their DNA and Hannity is their by-product.
The reason I say that is becuase Hannity is a shock jock, and his republican/conservative attitude mixes with the Im right F-U attitude of Stern, as if Hannity got his politics from Rush Limbaugh, and his attitude from Howard Stern.
Anyway. It’s just a goof…
But I do hope to see Hannity debate out of his arena where there are guidelines for a debate with someone more intellectual than his typical audience where Hannity can’t weed out the good comments by hanging up on a person.
If he comes out here I would be suprised. But one can hope!
#34 by Cliff Lyon on March 19, 2007 - 6:05 am
Hannity isn’t coming. His condition was that only Fox could have rights to the debate. Rocky insisted it had to be open to all media. Both are standing firm.
Hannity has no choice. He’s Fox’s bitch.
#35 by UtahPirateRadio on March 19, 2007 - 11:12 pm
I figured Hannity wasn’t as charitable as he claimed. He mentioned he would come out here on his own expense. But letting Fox have exclusive rights tells a different story.
So not only to the concerned people of America miss out on a good debate, but charity loses out too. Sean offered to donate all of the proceeds to the winners favorite charity, but “all of the proceeds” wouldn’t include Fox’s advertising sales profits…. IF such an event even happened.
Regardless, I expected Sean to back out, or try to put this in his arena. Typical.
#36 by manabouttown on March 20, 2007 - 8:59 pm
well, you all sorta got your wish. you pondered,’how well would our boy Rocky would do against the neocon ’s best, like the Hannity’s’.
after seeing him on O’ Reilly, I think we all know how it would go.
but, I suppose all the Chomsky quoters, think he does just fine in close combat.
Long live the revolution ,Che!
#37 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 21, 2007 - 6:18 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz – my only solice is that some day you will all face God – and I hope that standing behind Him are all the children you have allowed to die by abortion, and all the boys and girls you have allowed to be abused and killed through your steam engine the ACLU – sueing to allow pornography to be handed out on the streets of Vegas? Come on … really … these are the values and ideals your little hero Rocky Anderson fights for? Impressive.
#38 by Cliff Lyon on March 21, 2007 - 7:28 pm
And I hope that when you face your keeper, behind him will be standing all the American children that died as infants because under the republicn government the US rose to have the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world
And behind them the 650,000 innocent Iraqis who have been murdered under YOUR drunk coke-head president for lies.
I am not a religious man, but I can assure you. Jesus would have been a freakin liberal. Oh yeah, Jesus WAS a freakin liberal.
#39 by Cliff Lyon on March 21, 2007 - 7:30 pm
One more thing. If you were a decent father and not such a sick pervert, pornography wouldn’t threaten your children.
#40 by Nephi on March 21, 2007 - 8:35 pm
Hey Bored,
I feel a big fat ad hominem fart coming your way: sicko pervert!
#41 by UtahPirateRadio on March 22, 2007 - 12:43 am
Im no liberal, Im no conservative… Moderate?? I don’t think so.
I have probably enough conservative views to be more than moderate, but not enough to be a neocon republican.
It really doesn’t matter, the whole partisan game is just a distraction anyway.
#42 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 22, 2007 - 11:25 am
Are you kidding me? If I were a decent father pornography wouldn’t threaten my children? Obviously you aren’t a father, and if you are, I feel sorry for your children. Pornography threatens all our children because the sickos that use it are the ones abusing them.
First of all your numbers are (shocker) way off … but even if they weren’t, it doesn’t even come close to comparing with the number of abortions performed each year … 46 million EACH YEAR worldwide. Multiply that times the six years of the iraq war and you’ve got 276,000,000 vs. your 650,000. Hmmmmmmmm.
#43 by C aveat on March 22, 2007 - 12:56 pm
If everybody’s doing it (aborting), must be O.K. Too bad george w.h. and barb didn’t have that figured out.
#44 by Cliff Lyon on March 22, 2007 - 6:17 pm
Bored,
Thanks for expanding on your thoughts. A couple of questions…
1. Your premise appears to be that porno creates child abusers.
Do you believe that if there were no porno that there would be no child molesters?
2. Are you equating people who don’t believe the politicians should make reproductive family planning decisions for women and their doctors with murdering innocent Iraqis?
Do you think letting the gov’t make reproductive choices for your family is morally superior to YOU making those decisions?
I really want to learn from you.
Thanks
#45 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 22, 2007 - 6:53 pm
Cliff,
Thanks for your questions. I’m sorry if I take awhile to respond, but it’s difficult to find the time to get online.
1. Of course there would be child molesters without pornography, but anyone who claims pornography doesn’t have a significant impact on that number is crazy. I’m not just talking about magazines and online websites either. I’m also talking about T.V., movies, billboards, etc. I am an elementary school teacher, and each day I wrack my brain trying to figure out why the ACLU fights so hard to “protect kids from the evils of religion” and then turns around and supports child pornography (which they do). Does that make sense to anyone?
If there were no pornography can anyone doubt that children would be spared? Can anyone doubt that marriages and relationships would be saved? That there would be less broken homes and more functional families raising functional children?
Of course it wouldn’t be a fix-all, but should we allow it to continue just because it won’t remove every predator from the streets? Why would it be wrong to castrate anyone convicted of a sex crime? Why would it be wrong cut off the hand of a thief? Why would it be wrong so have prisons that are actually uncomfortable and unwelcoming? We have become sooooooooooooo politically correct in this country that it seems there are no consequences for anything anymore. There is no fear of what will happen. Everyone whines about this guys rights being abused, or the unlawful intrusions into this guys privacy. Obviously there need to be limits, but I’m not afraid of someone listening to my calls or monitoring my bank accounts. What do I have to hide? NOTHING! It drives me nuts.
2. My comparison between abortions and Iraqi deaths was in response to your earlier comment about those who would greet me after death. Of course there’s no legitimate comparison between the two, but you wanted to bring out numbers. BTW, I love how you describe it as “reproductive family planning decisions” vs. “murdering innocent Iraqis”. I always have, and always will maintain that “family planning decisions” should be made BEFORE you get pregnant. If you decide to have sex without a condom, THAT was your decision. If you decide to take a chance, THAT was your decision. The decision should not be whether or not to take the only REAL innocent life on this earth, that of a developing child.
I hope I didn’t sound too bitter in these responses. These are probably two of the issues I am most passionate about. I was molested as a child by someone addicted to pornography. It seems so incredible that people are so willing to support such an obviously dangerous evil from our society in the name of free speech (and not to mention a few billion dollars on the side). My passion against abortion comes from the six beautiful children I have, and the serious innability so many people have to accept responsibility for the decisions they make.
#46 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 22, 2007 - 6:54 pm
Oh yeah, and thanks for the posts. I would love to hear your thoughts. Have a great night.
#47 by Cliff Lyon on March 22, 2007 - 8:14 pm
Bored,
Thank you for your thorough response. I’ve read you response several times to make sure I don’t get this wrong.
I think our differences are superficial when we peel away the top layer. Your positions are primarily values based as they relate to morality.
I don’t reject those beliefs.
But I think we need to break the issues down to the question of the role of government in our personal lives and the role of government in promoting social values and morality.
Let start with your statement about the ACLU,; “I wrack my brain trying to figure out why the ACLU fights so hard to “protect kids from the evils of religion†and then turns around and supports child pornography (which they do). Does that make sense to anyone?â€
If you read the ACLU’s positions carefully, you will discover they are legalistic ones and as such it is unfair to characterize them in social morality terms.
If you read their mission, I think you will agree it is a good one and that they follow it; “The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.â€
Nobody at the ACLU is trying to protect kids from the evils of religion, but rather enforcing the balance between the role of government and civil liberties and individual rights.
In many cases the ACLU has defended religious freedom. Most ACLU haters would be SHOCKED to know about these cases.
The issue of pornography is a very difficult one. Thorough study of case law surrounding pornography, is a fascinating, sometime thrilling adventure into the political philosophy of individual rights and freedom of speech. These cases always involve the collision of cultural values and the principles of individual freedoms.
You often hear the phrase the cost of freedom. Many mis associate the phrase with fighting communism or evil. The cost of freedom means something quite different.
I would respectfully ask you to re-investigate the concept of the cost of (individual) freedom with the intellectual curiosity of a young child learning for the first time why what the founding fathers did was so revolutionary.
Why is it so short? Why is the 1st amendment the first one. What were the founding fathers afraid of? Were they trying to shape a new country proscriptively, or were they doing something much more profound?
I would argue that the founding fathers were trying to get at the essence of the human spirit and saw their role as an opportunity to prove to the world that given the opportunity to be really free, freer than any man living on earth at the time, in any country, that the idea of personal responsibility would produce something quite different and better.
..and that the cost of that kind of freedom would be high, and that it would require a kind of tolerance that was unprecedented. And they thought about this really hard and they knew the biggest threat in maintaining such freedoms was tyranny of the majority AND the minority.
So the next time you hear the term activist judges, think for a moment that the founding fathers predicted that there would be times when the will of a majority of the people would threaten to erode those personal freedoms in a way that few understand.
That’s all for now. I would love to explore this further with you. It is a fascinating subject. I encourage you to read the Federalist Papers. They document the ideas and debate that went on during the crafting of the greatest legal document of all time. The founding fathers were very careful to document the process because they frankly didn’t believe that the experiment would have survived and succeeded as it has.
I will leave you with one thought. I you try to prevent me from looking at naked girls doing things you find offensive, you run the risk of destroying the very freedoms that you enjoy today. If that is hard to understand, I would ask you to do however much work is required to be able to argue MY position on the subject convincingly. When you can do that grasshopper, you will have arrived at a place the founding fathers KNEW most Americans would never achieve.
#48 by Nephi on March 22, 2007 - 8:34 pm
Bored,
What happens if one of your female loved ones were to become pregnant through rape? Are you going to carve out an exception for that? What about discussions with your lawyer or doctor re a critical decision that may have profound legal or personal repercussions? Exceptions permitted? Or how’s about a conversation with your bishop? Got a problem with BushCo listening in on that? Or how fast do you drive? Got any issues with robo-cop photographing you driving to or from work?
Get the picture?
#49 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 22, 2007 - 8:40 pm
Cliff, thanks again for your response. I promise I’ll respond tomorrow when I have some time.
Nephi, did you take all night coming up with this response? Do you really think that rape is the issue when it comes to abortion? What percentage of those 46 million abortions are due to rape? Why would I be worried about anyone listening to discussions with my lawyer? Why would I be worried about the government listening to conversations with my bishop? If I had a reason to go to my bishop shouldn’t I be ready to accept the consequences of whatever actions put me in that position? Do I speed? Sometimes. If I speed do I deserve a ticket? Of course I do. I just hope I don’t get caught. If the cops are smart enough to put robo-cop out there I won’t speed anymore, and if I do, I deserve a ticket. Why are you so against personal responsibility?
#50 by Outraged [former] Repug on March 22, 2007 - 8:47 pm
Nephi,
You forgot one – perhaps the most important. What happens when someone with hypersensitive thoughts re the definition of porn comes along and imposes restrictions on Bored that even Bored finds overbearing? No worries, I’ll answer my own question. Bored all of a sudden finds the ACLU far less repulsive than is currently the case!!!
#51 by Nephi on March 22, 2007 - 8:54 pm
Good to see that folks are busy on the blogo this pm.
Bored,
First of all, thanks for ditching the shrill tone that accompanied your first comment or two on 1U. If the roles were reversed and the same tone appeared on a right wing blog, immediate banning would be the result. To Cliff’s credit, like most left wing blog-masters, banning is reserved for the most eggregious of circumstances, which do not include anti-liberal commentary. Welcome!!
Now, back to my question which you conveniently avoided: What happens if one of your female loved ones were to become pregnant through rape? Are you going to carve out an exception for that?
#52 by Cavæt on March 22, 2007 - 9:34 pm
Abortion: I believe it has been scientifically determined that no man will ever have to face that decision. I suggest we keep our manly noses out of it til we are asked for our opinion by a female facing that question, presumably a female who trusts us and values our opinion.
As for porn, when does the depiction of sex become offensive? Who’s to decide? It certainly does go WAY back and often through the ages has had almost holy connotations.
Lastly, I have had this question bumping around in my mind for quite some time. How is it the anti-abortion advocate can be so oblivious to the deaths caused by thier tax dollars in the form of unjustified wars, the production and use of offensive weapons, or for that matter, industrialized meat consumption?
#53 by Lynette on March 22, 2007 - 9:42 pm
Bored,
I happen to be somewhat of an expert on the subject of abortion.
You keep talking about the 46 million abortions. You further argue that because such a small proportion of those are the result of rape and that therefore rape should not be a consideration when discussing goverment’s role legislation of abortion and the evisceration of a woman’s right to choose.
So I assume you agree that in the case of rape, abortion should be allowed.
What would be the standard for determining if the pregnancy is the result of rape?
And if you would, could you provide the source of the 46 million number?
Thank you.
#54 by The Blessed Rope on March 22, 2007 - 11:21 pm
Cav men face abortion with their wives and girlfriends all the time.
As we well know from this empathic, estrogen filled blog, there is psychological damage every bit as traumatic for men, as women, though women bear the whole of the physical reality.
#55 by Cavæt on March 23, 2007 - 5:13 am
I do not think all abortions are damaging / traumatic. A demise of that loveable little critter, likely another little soldier-fodder, a familys broken bank, the returning son of god, or…?, suggests that said critter will just have to come from some other womb. That’s all.
RU486
#56 by boredwithliberalfreaks on March 23, 2007 - 6:52 am
Wow, it was apparently a busy night on here. I still have some lesson plans to get ready for today, so I’ll have to reply this afternoon. In the meantime, to answer the apparent burning question of rape and abortion … my wife and I have discussed this numerous times. While many churches and religious organizations make exceptions for rape and incest, I do not. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be one of the hardest experiences of that person’s life, but I don’t believe two wrongs make a right. No woman should ever have to go through something like that whether it results in a pregnancy or not, but destroying that baby’s life is simply committing a second crime. Put the baby up for adoption. Yes, I know it would be a very difficult reminder for the fourty weeks that child was with her, but hey, that’s just my take on it.
Cav, I hate it when people say that men should keep their noses out of abortion. It is not an issue just facing women. Every one of my children are just as much mine as they are my wife’s. I love them just as much as she does. The fact that she carried them is truly a miracle, but that in no way makes them any less my child, my responsibility, and my greatest achievement.
Back to work …
p.s.- I’ve never been on a conservative blogsite so I can’t talk to their responses. In fact, it was my searching for Rocky’s clips with Bill that brought me here. So, as a first-time poster ANYWHERE I do appreciate your considerations and patience with me.
#57 by Lynette on March 23, 2007 - 7:06 am
And we appreciate your presence here.
As a newbie, perhaps you are open to using a less cynical screen name. It may cause the discourse to elevate somewhat.
“Boredwithliberals” suggests your mind is made up and closed.
I would hate to think our children are being taught by professionals who put cultural stereotypes above intellectectual curiosity.
Peace, L
#58 by Brian on March 23, 2007 - 7:17 am
Thanks Lynette, you’re right. I must admit I feel like I’ve reached a point where my mind is pretty made up, but I’ve enjoyed the conversations over the past two days, so maybe I’m not completely hopeless.
I never put cultural stereotypes above curiousity (at least not in the classroom). I recognize my responsibility and influence as a teacher and always have and always will teach my students to engage in looking at both sides of an issue. While I might not be able to do that myself at times, they don’t have to know that, so I always stress how important it is. We just finished reports on the American Revolution from the British point of view.
#59 by Tim on March 29, 2007 - 10:28 am
May 4th is the date: Hannity has no screener or “kill button”. He will be playing in “NFL” with no helmet or pads when he debates Rocky. Hannity can only play on your emotion, not on your intellect. Hannity will receive the “beating” he has deserved for years now. GO GET UM, ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#60 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 11:29 am
Brian; You just did reports on the british point of view of the Revolution? Why? What was your stated objective in this. I should like to see that!!
Pray tell, was the objectivity there? For if it was you would wonder why we walk with the brits now in Iraq. They are not to be trusted, their ways never become ours.
#61 by Brian on March 29, 2007 - 12:10 pm
Blessed, I’m honestly not sure what point you are trying to get across, but in response to your question about my objective … I wanted my students to see that there were two sides to the war – they were expected to look at the ideas, emotions, and rationale behind both points of view, and then make an education decision about which side they supported and why. Obviously I wanted them to all come to the conclusion that what the colonies did was brave, bold, and necessary, but it’s not my place to TELL them this, they need to make that decision for themselves.
#62 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 12:17 pm
Did any of the reports comment on the summary executions of Continental soldiers depending upon who and where they were taken in defeat? Not being provocative, but to Patriots there were no proper reasons for the brits to war the way they did on the Colonies. It made for a desperate enemy, that ended them.
King George ended the behavior, but early on the ‘”traitors” our Patriots, were put to death. No wonder why the battle was fierce.
We should do no business with britain, even today.
#63 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 3:37 pm
Funny; we “tell” people the exacting formulas to define geometry, algebra, and calculus, but we won’t give our children the true formula of what made us free,….
….. we have to tell the story of the side that absolutely would have left us subject to the tyranny of the crown, the tory side, usually slavers, or the simple loyally minded common folk. Who wants to teach that sorry story? Though as a ridiculed object lesson it would be OK by me.
I have no problem with propaganda in this regard. BG would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! …
The first, compelled by deception, got us into Iraq. The second properly applied to the current crop of criminals, will get us out.
#64 by Brian on March 29, 2007 - 3:45 pm
You’re comparing algebra formulas to gaining a better understanding of the movement behind the American Revolution?
So … you’re all for those who wanted to escape the tyranny of the crown, but believe it’s wrong for the people of Iraq to want a better life? You whine about our involvement in Iraq, and most likely would argue that they need to fight their own fight … yet where would America be if we had been left on our own to our own fight?
#65 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 3:57 pm
So Brian, since you are “the teach” what was it George Washington, Father of our Country, stated in his Farewell Address concerning “foreign entanglements” especially those not in our interest?
Please cover this is detail with your students.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm
Further, the Revolution was a minority event in which the Founding Fathers, the minority, asked for aid from France, and received it unconditionally, because their King Louis the 16th at the time, was a mental defective. We got pretty lucky, better than virtue anyday. By and large though, the fight was our own, and tories certainly had no mettle like the Sunni insurgency.
Force of will tends to make its own history. The Sunnis, also a minority.
#66 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 4:00 pm
To make it clear, in backing maliki, we back the tory puppet. Like Gage in Boston, is maliki.
#67 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 4:00 pm
and Howe….
#68 by Brian on March 29, 2007 - 4:08 pm
I have to say you are using Washington’s warning of foreign entanglements incorrectly. Though it is a very common misconception, Washington was absolutely NOT saying we should NEVER have anything to do with other nations, and he wasn’t speaking militarily, he was speaking regarding trade. Washington meant only to steer clear of European alliances and entanglements only for as long as it took to get the USA consolidated and strong in the face of superior European power. In a letter to Gouverneur Morris on Dec. 22, 1795, Washington mentioned how he envisioned that the USA would be strong enough to hold its own about 20 years after the country’s birth, that, until that time, he wanted his country to be left alone and clear of European meddling so that the USA’s position would be unassailable. So, Washington’s warning was one of the immediate future NOT one of a permanent nature. It should also be remembered that the US was FULLY involved in trade negotiations with every European nation at the time Washington issued his farewell address, so even as he was warning about foreign entanglements, the country was already so entangled.
In comparing Maliki to Gage are you also comparing the United States to the Brits?
#69 by The Blessed Rope! on March 29, 2007 - 5:08 pm
Neither am I, never say never, Just believe this entanglement is in no way in our interests, and has been brought to the fore with the help of unworthy alliances.
“No permanent friends, no permanent enemies, only permanent self interest”. This is the directive of realpolitik, as it is practised the World round. Play it to win, because the other choice is lose. The morality play is for politics, and domestic consumption. It doesn’t weigh on the minds of our enemies at all. They have their own reasons for fighting. We are in their lands with guns in our hands, the die is cast.
Good thing what you think of Georges’ plan was all about, was not realized, and that Jackson and the like had the sand to disagree with your supposed take on things. We had doings with the English that led to our War with them in 1812, all economic, and quite entangling. Business with the crown is always duplicitous like that.
The comparison is absolutely there. Agree or disagree, the outcome will be similar.
#70 by UtahPirateRadio on December 18, 2007 - 9:02 am
After moving, and getting busy with work I forgot about these forums that I used to frequent.
What happened to this discussion? Where is ‘bored’?
This was very interesting!
My opinion on abortion. It is wrong. It is no solution to birth control. It should be heavily regulated. Sure there are exceptions to the rule. However, those exceptions should be overseen by a judge.
Painful to go in front of a judge and ask for an abortion? Yes.
Necessary? Yes!!!! Come on! We are talking about ending a human life!
#71 by Cliff Lyon on December 18, 2007 - 12:19 pm
Mr. Pirate,
I don’t see ant mention of the parents or mothers rights. You really want to legislate that because you believe aborting a zygote is killing a human.
I would think you are more outraged be the number of people our country kills daily.