One Utah

The conversation taking place over at the D-news is so illustrative of everything that’s wrong with Utah’s public and political culture I can’t let it go.  There’s a sense of entitlement among the Mormons that their morals are clearly correct and should unquestionably be reinforced by the laws and everyone who differs is a miscreant.  Among the nons, there’s a sense of disbelief that the Mormons “don’t get it” and a frustration with the cultural hegemony of the Mormons - and a little bit of condescension.

In a fairly straight forward article - Most Salt Lakers want to loosen liquor laws; so do 2 candidates- the News reports a recent Dan Jones poll showing almost 56% of Salt Lake residents want looser liquor laws, while 38% oppose changes to the liquor laws.

Opposition to more lenient liquor law clearly breaks out along political and religious lines, Jones found in the poll. Only 19 percent of city Republicans favored looser liquor laws, while 76 percent of them opposed more liberal liquor laws. Only 10 percent of LDS Salt Lakers favored looser liquor laws, while 72 percent of LDS Church members in the city opposed looser laws.

Just the opposite is found among Democratic and independent non-Mormons, Jones found. Nine out of 10 Salt Lakers who said they belong to no religion want looser liquor laws. Jones found that 83 percent of Democrats want looser liquor laws in the city, while 61 percent of political independents want looser laws.

The article itself isn’t anything new - a rehash of the usual Utah debates about alcohol.  The conversation taking place in the discussion board is an unfortunate revelation of the psyche of too many Utahns.

Here’s a sampling of comments (arbitrary spelling and grammar unchanged; some bold emphasis added):

I wonder if the family of the woman who was just killed by the drunk driver feels alcohol is too difficult to get in Utah.

I moved here two years ago and love the fact it’s not like other big cities I’ve lived in. There is still enough crime but alchohol abuse is high and only adds to crime, spousal abuse, child abuse, drunk driving deaths, teen-age addictions etc…. Do we really want that for our town? Keep alchohol out!

I’m sorry Conejo, but the drunk driver would have relatively little difficulty getting booze, no matter what the laws might be. If members of the LDS church wish not to drink, I respect that completely. But if they expect to extend that to me, they’ve got another think coming. The vast majority of people that drink do so in moderation. They’re adults and don’t need a set of nanny laws. There are problem drinkers of course, but the years of Prohibition proved that you can’t legislate better behavior.

Personally, I think it should be much, much harder to buy Jello. Now THERE’s a problem.

It would seem to me that if those residents of Salt Lake City who wish to imbibe in drinking alcohol want to make it easier to buy the stuff, they might rather consider moving down the road a bit to Los Vegas, whereat they may more easily indulge in all the other things which detract from the dignity of being a child of God. More simply put, knowing that Salt Lake City is the world headquarters for the LDS Church and its Word of Wisdom, people who wish to drink should live elsewhere.

I totally agree with Carlos! Keep Utah different! No one is forced to move there. Plenty of space in other states for people who cannot live without booze. The simple fact is that people do bad things to other people and if they drink they just do worse things and more often. And even good people under the influence of alcohol do bad things they would never do when they are sober.

What ever happened to the separation of Church and State. Everyone in Utah needs to get over the fact that people are moving in from out of the state and we aren’t LDS! We like to have a drink every once and a while and shouldn’t have to be stopped because of stupid laws.. and people wonder why people make fun of this state.

If you want to drink, go live somewhere else! Move to Las Vegas they’d love to have you

People complain about the way Utah is all the time. Why are you here if you don’t like the way it is? We are not like every big city in the US and that is why we are SLC. To tell you the truth there are a lot of non-mormons that choose not to drink, and I am one of them. The thing is people that are coming from other places have to abide by our laws. When you go visit another country on vacation do you obey their laws? Well we all know the answer to that and if you don’t like Utah or SLC for the way it is find another place to live. If you love Utah for the way it is I welcome you to this wonderful state, I love Utah!!!!

If getting a permit makes it harder for someone (especially tourists) then I’m for it! Anything that discourages drinking is a good thing. Make them miserable so that type of a person won’t want to stay here and we can live a safer life because of it. If you don’t like the Utah laws then move somewhere else that sponsors your type of living. Not a hard decision to make and the Utah laws should make it more miserable and less desirable for those who drive and drink alcoholic beverages and drive and use drugs.

Did any of you read the article–A MAJORITY of SLC residents are in favor of making the liquor restrictions more reasonable. SLC is different, has a far more diverse population and as a diverse Capital City, Tourist Center and Convention Destination, has a different role than the rest of the state. Park City being another notable exception. It’s absurd liquor laws (which keep no one from drinking by the way) and religious domination of non-members in the state that led Park City to essentially secede from the state, proclaiming itself “The Independent Republic of Park City” in it’s marketing ads. As I would assume most of the responses are from outside SLC, ask yourself, does a Majority count? Or just when it coincides with your own beliefs?

People having a glass or two of wine with dinner aren’t going to suddenly go on a rampage. You seem to assume that any consumption at all is going to inevitably result in mayhem. So what if Becker drinks a little bit - what people that don’t ever drink never have any problems?

I support cracking down on drunk driving as well.

Do any of you have any friends that aren’t Mormon? Why?

I am suprised at the relative lack of interaction / socialization among the commenters here with non-LDS people. Have you become so exclusive and judgemenal in your morality that you can not tolerate a nice meal with a friend or neighbor if they happen to enjoy a glass of wine with theirs?Wouldn’t this go a long way to help us understand one another?

Why is everyone being so dramatic? Not everyone who drinks decides to beat their wife or drive drunk. You can be a responsible, good person and still drink. It’s not about if it is morally right or wrong to drink…the fact is that it is LEGAL. Taxes on alcohol pay for a huge chunk of all education in this state, no one complains about that. Loosen the laws…no one will drink more…no one will drink less…we may just shed our reputation of being a backward state that hides our polygamy.

The Liberals of this country doesnt know whats best for them To prove this just make a comparison between the blue States and the Red states.Where Murders and suicides are about 7 to 1 higher in the blue states where the Liquor Laws ARE FAR LESS RESTRICTIVE THE MORE LIBERAL YOU GET YOU SEE CRIME GET SO BAD THE POLICE CANT KEEP IT UNDER CONTROLL WE DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN HERE IN OUR STATE.So its time for the State to take charge in a City that’s getting out of control

That last one may be my personal favorite - I just can’t decide if it’s intended satirically or seriously.  Right now, I’m leaning in the “serious” direction but it’s so over the top, I’m not sure I believe it was intended seriously (on the other hand, Albert Beverige’s 19th century screed on white man’s burden was intended seriously and I thought it was satire).  I love the notion that Salt Lake City is getting out of control and needs our legislative big daddy to come in and save us from our bad selves.

I’m sure there will be other comments appearing (in the time I’ve been working this post about 10 more comments have appeared).

Round about 30 years ago, at a very hot mid-summer family barbecue, my very Mormon uncle took my father aside and - in all seriousness - said to him, “You know, I’ve seen you drink two beers today.  I’m worried you are an alcoholic.”  To me, this story has always exemplified what’s wrong with Mormon culture and alochol - in a nutshell the idea that single drink is the same as getting drunk, driving down the street and killing a bunch of innocent babes, beating your wife and raping your neighbor’s sheep.  (I love the line from Roseannewhen her mother tells her that Dan is an alcoholic - “Given the life he leads, I don’t think Dan drinks nearly enough!”) 

Within much of Mormon culture, the attitude toward alcohol is catastrophic, driven by actual ignorance of alcohol and its effects and terror of the imagined consequences of imbibing.  Part of this terror is based in the actual epxeriences of many wayward Mormons who, with no role models for responsible alcohol consumption, overindulge to the extreme and then “misbehave” - and then use that overindulgence as an excuse for their misdeeds (it’s not my fault - I was drunk!).  At times, I wonder which behavior is more shocking to the Ward - the sex or the alcohol.  Thus, in Mormon culture alcohol becomes, literally, “demon rum” - responsible for a wide array of social ills, but also the totem onto which a host of ills are projected.

In light of Mormonism’s general distrust of the pleasures of the flesh, this scenario comes as no surprise.   For Mormons looking to “misbehave” it creates a socially acceptable out for doing things you already want to do and reinforces a cultural narrative in which self discipline is a virtue and negative consequences flow from the lack of self discipline.  Within the context of Mormon morality as influenced by the Word of Wisdom (I love when Mormons say this - you can hear the capital letters), promiscuity, drinking coffee, having a glass of wine, beating your kids, gambling and incest seem perceived as morally equal, and profoundly connected, sins.  Notice that several commenters said if we wanted to drink we could just move our sinful selves to Las Vegas.  That’s not accidental.

A while back, I talked about the idea that to many cultural conservatives, there is not difference between an unmarried, committed couple having sex and a Roman orgy.  The same idea applies to alcohol in Utah - there’s not difference between a glass of wine at dinner and a blind drunken rampage through the quiet streets South Jordan, running down babies and grandmothers; there’s no distinction between a pleasant buzz and a blackout.  You can see that perception in many of the comments - allowing liquor by the drink is the same as unleashing a hoard of drunk drivers on the streets.

I think it’s connected to the idea of boundary violations.  Within Mormon morality, you either toe the line and reap the rewards, or you cross the boundary and suffer the consequences.  Every step across the line is the first step down a dangerous and slippery slope to utter depravity and ruin.  There is clear dividing line between right and wrong, a line laid down by an unquestionable authority figure who keeps track of such things (and if “he” doesn’t, the neighbors are watching).  In a larger sense, attitudes toward alcohol are rooted in the idea that a person willing to cross one boundary, will be easily seduced, talked into, or too weak to not, cross another boundary.  The idea that I might choose to have a  glass of wine (contravening the moral rules), suggests that I have no respect for any moral rules and thus might see no problem with breaking other moral rules.  Choosing to break that rule is a sign that I lack the self-discipline and control to refuse to beat my kids, rape my neighbor’s sheep, endanger lives by driving drunk. 

Conflating drunk driving - a real problem - with a glass of wine at dinner or a few drinks in a dance club doesn’t make sense to persons who have models of responsible alcohol consumption, but does to people who don’t.  Distrust of the pleasures of the flesh connects all alcohol consumption with a pleasure one must resist, without acknowledging that alcohol is best enjoyed in moderation.

The entire discussion about the article broke down quickly into Mormon anti-alcohol hysteria and non-Mormon sarcasm (”welcome to the 21st century Utah”).  The Utah Mormons can be clannish and insular only exacerbates the communication problem.  Non-Mormons as often as not look down on their Mormon neighbors as naive, sheltered and - let’s be honest - as bumpkins.

I have to conclude with this comment.  It is stereotypically Utah Mormon - condescending toward Mormons, blandly judgmental and priggishly self-righteousness, convinced that Mormons are a persecuted minority about to murdered in their beds by raving hoards of degenerates (and the official church teachings only reinforce this attitude even if the outcome is unofficial):

So you are looking to “bridge the divide” between Mormons and Gentiles, are you? Let me guess, that would entail Mormons lowering their standards so Gentiles don’t have to feel so bad about themselves when they have a drink?

If only we could go back to the times when non-Mormons were so tolerant of our religion and way of life. You know, like in Kirtland…no, that’s not it. Oh, I know! Jackson County Missouri…nope, not there either. Oh, uh, Nauvoo! No, not there. Oh wait, there has NEVER been a time in history when non-Mormons have been tolerant to the church…

And now that there is a non-Mormon majority in SLC, the games begin again. That’s all fine, but don’t try to mask reducing the church’s influence with the lame “bridging the divide” argument. Lame.

This entry was posted Thursday, October 4th, 2007 at 11:24 am and is filed under 4th Estate (Media), Bigotry, Privacy, Ralph Becker, Religious Fundamentalism, SLC Politics, Society, This Blog, Utah Legislature, Utah Politics. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.