Glenden BrownIt’s Not Anyone Else’s Fault Michigan and Florida Don’t Count
Last night on CNN, the had a whiny story about how the people of Michigan and Florida are so sad their votes in their primaries won’t count and their delegates won’t get to vote at the Democratic National Convention later this year.
WATB.
Here’s the deal: The DNC set the rules out for everyone to see way before primary election time. They said: Only four states before Feb 5, Super Tuesday. The politicians in Florida and Michigan decided the rules did not apply to them and held their primaries early. Hillary Clinton (for reasons I cannot fathom) lacked the ethics to remove her name from the ballot in those states. Both John Edwards and Barack Obama removed their names. Clinton “won” the primaries in those states. Now, facing an insurmountable lag behind Barack Obama in the delegate count, Clinton no doubt wants those states primaries to count. A bunch of crybabies in those states want their primaries to count. They in essence are saying, “Hey we broke the rules. But the out come matters so we should be okay breaking the rules.”
So sorry. Not gonna happen.
Of course the Republicans in both states say they had no intention of fucking with the Democratic party’s presidental primary. Of course, Republicans would never do anything sleazy, immoral, unethical, or downright nasty. The butter won’t melt in their mouths. And of course these same lying fucktard Republicans say there’s no money for a redo of their primaries.
Anyway, the solution seems simple. If Michigan and Florida’s Democratic parties want their delegates to be seated, want their votes to count, they should step up to the plate and have another primary. If I were them, I’d ask each of the campaigns to kick in some money to pay for it, do some local fundraising, make sure the DNC is on board and have a valid primary election.
Now, the thing here is we’re going to hear about how this is unfair to the voters in those states who voted before. Yeah, but that’s not the fault of either campaign or the Democratic Party. The people to blame are the elected officials in those states who knew the rules in advance and decided they were so very special that the rules did not apply to them.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I like the way Howard Dean called their bluff. They’re welcome to hold new primaries, but the DNC won’t pay. “We can’t afford to do that. That’s not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race,” he said.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I agree!
I may not like our current system, but the rules aren’t exactly secret so these two states were basically daring the DNC to do anything to them. The DNC did just what it said it would do and now they’re whining.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Well it bodes ill, as they are two of the most populous states in the Union, and are both part of the 10 States in this country that pay for everything, as defined as taxes paid out and federal subsidies returned. I.E, they get negative returns. They are usually fertile ground for democrat politics as well.
20 States break even, 20 are basket cases. Utah is a basket case, New Mexico has the worst ratio, 2 federal dollars for every 1 paid in taxes. In fact the whole Rocky Mtn West is a basket case, except for of course Nevada, which is 1 of the 10 States that pay for everything.
Not including Florida and Michigan for whatever reason saps legitimacy in whoever it is that “wins”, or should I now say, whoever is “chosen” by the democrat “super delegates” . In few words, the elite of the dem leadership. Representational democracy allows for this, the will of the People or the ballot can be ignored. There are no laws saying that the simple majority has to be listened to.
The conundrum that exists in obama winning all the little states, and hillary the larger important ones, is a situation the big boys of the party will decide. It will not be left to the will of the party faithful and their votes.
The establishment of super delegates in the first place was to insure that a dark horse candidate not sanctioned by the party elite, could never get the nomination, and derail the power that is held in the hands of the few. It is a decidedly undemocratic maneuver.
The more you look, the more the dems look like reps.
The proof will be what happens to obama.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Pop - I don’t disagree that excluding Florida and Michigan is a bad idea. I reject the idea that they should be rewarded for knowingly flouting the rules.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Glendon
I agree completely with your post (except for the childish obscenities, and the attack on Republicans, they didn’t create this mess). I agree with Rush’s guest host today. “No amnesty for Florida and Michigan”. No re-votes too because that would only benefit Hillary.
Any attempt to change the rules in the middle of the game will rightfully be viewed as a sham.
WMWarnick
Howard Dean helped make this mess now he is shirking his and the DNC responsibility over this matter. Either they or the Florida Democrat party should pay for any re-vote but it should not be at the expense of Florida tax payers.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:41 am
For shams sake, allow them the use of ’signing statements”.
Third party!
March 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
To use a Canadianism, at the end of the day…it is bad for democracy. Why is it that a State, that is under Constitution its own sovereign entity has to kowtow to the unelected elite operatives in the Democrat party?
It is basically against the 1st Amendment of Freedom of Assembly. Instead, if you don’t play by our dnc rules, you don’t get to play or be considered, it smacks of undemocratic practise. What are the States, the dncs’ children? We very much need to break the undemocratic joke of a lock the 2 parties have on our quasi multiple member dictatorship.
If the dems lose, you can blame yee haw hee haw for his lack of vision, if blaming is in you…which I believe it is, from how it is always some other parties fault for all of Americas’ ills.
The methods and name are diametrically opposed, and in that sense the” party” is an oxymoron.
Between reps and dems we are not a democracy in any true sense of the word, and I am pretty tired of hearing of how much change there is going to be.
False optimism is true pessimism, my own truism. When will Americans get real about this Country? It’s consumption without forward plan, respect for all lifestyles without the benefit of favoritism or public funding, whether it is illegal aliens or no bid crony corporations like boeing. It has to start all being the same, or there will be only a rather short slide into the tyranny of the elites, or majority. Or as I like to say, tyranny of the Stupid.
That’s freedumb and democrazy in Muricah these days.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
They are only doing it because it is obvious to the elites that obama is going into the meat grinder, and hillary is better equipped.
Bottom line for dems, if you can’t win the big states, you can’t win.
It is the set up for the end of the Cinderella story.
The fact that the States want to change rules in the middle of the game is simply a bi-partisan practised response to possibly losing. Think of the unprecedented Supreme Court intervention after the chadgate.
After all, if any had not noticed, we are running a win at all costs form of politics.
Ken, no amnesty for Michigan and Florida, that’s funny, there is a reason rush is the #1 entertainer on radio…the knife cuts both ways, and is serrated, and if I read leaving the two out correctly, the knife can often cut your own throat if one isn’t careful.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Ken, everybody knows the GOP-controlled Florida legislature is responsible for what happened in Florida. In Michigan, Hillary-supporter Governor Jennifer Granholm is to blame.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Ken - there is nothing childish about calling someone a “fucktard” . I agree that we should not change the rules in the middle of the game. This mess was created by a Republican legislature and governor in Florida (the story I saw focused on Florida). I should be clear that I think the Michigan folks made as big a mistake. But given Florida’s recent history as a state in which electoral shenanigans are SOP, I can’t help but believe there was malicious intent.
I’m not convinced a revote would automatically benefit either candidate. I think if Obama had been on the ballot Michigan, he’d've won.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Well Glendon, if it is politically incorrect to call a person a “retard” then we will let the public draw its own conclusions…your defense of your slur.., is duly noted.
Are you currently in the habit of calling those with mental challenges “retards”?
March 7th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
WMWarnick
The Florida Legislature is not required to take it’s marching orders from the DNC. They set a primary date and the DNC rejected it. The Florida Democrat party was told by the DNC they could hold a caucus on a date approved by the DNC but they refused thus being stripped of their delegates. It had nothing to do with what the Florida legislature did.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Pop - I was afraid someone (apparently like you) would miss the obvious irony of my statement . . .
March 7th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Per usual, Glenden is right on while … Ken Bingham flailingly attempts to defend his non-defendable Repugliscum heros. Bravo, Genden; shame on you, Ken!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
The knife is sharp and cuts all ways Glendon, and by now any credibility you would like to extend to those that would disagree with you, is vapor. What’s the obvious irony, is it this?
Do you consider yourself a fucktard? It generally falls to name calling an inadequacy inherent in the name caller. As I have mentioned, the loony left and the radical right are a perfect match for one another.
So if you were afraid, why did you do it?
March 7th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
So, all Florida had to do was wait until super Tuesday to vote and didn’t. What is Hillary thinking? I don’t think she would have broken the rules if she had been winning bigger up to that point.
Of course Mike Huckabee got word he better start the lock-step so the media could implement their portray-the-Republican-as-united directive.
Please Hillary, don’t do this!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Pop - I had another response here but deleted it . . . if you read it, I apologize read this one.
If you have genuine problem with my choice of language, say so in plain language. Don’t throw around hot button terms like “politically correct” and don’t dress up your concern as something else.
I may not agree with Ken on a lot of stuff, but at least he’s honest and upfront - he doesn’t like obscenity and he thinks it harms public dialog.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
F*cky-f*cking f*cktard anyway.
It’s the vote fraud thing all over again. Between the DNC (who gave ‘m the right) and the legislative or goubenatorial layers, the one-man-one-vote layer gets shut out, again.Well, thanks ya f*cky- f*cker.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Ooops, (chagrin)
March 7th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
No really, for a supposed people you represent, that base their whole political views on what is politically “correct”, and it being towed around like a fucktard sacred cow, I am simply pointing out that yes, your shit stinks, like everyones’.
My point has been despite what you dislike in others ways, we would do well to respect them to have it, within the law…, though not have respect for it. The Constitution at work.
I think you can understand well what it is like when one group politically gets the upper hand and DICTATES. Study any history and the unseemly truth is that the loony left has driven, using their ideology, the biggest recent horror shows when it assumes “correctness”, and then in the contravention of precedent laws, makes a brave new world.
I have no problems with your language, I just asked you questions. The responses, which I did read, show lack of control, a dangerous weakness when matched with authority. This behavior smacks of self esteem issues, and characteristic of people that are doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.
The ability to unnerve an opponent is important in physical contests, even more so in political ones. It has always struck me that the righteous indignation of the left over the predations of the right, serve only to lose the passionates’ focus.
The game is like chess, take things personally, and you are lost. Winning is the point.
The fact that dems have nothing on this president, proven by the last 18 months, it is now so predictable that they eviscerate one another near the end of their goal. It is Shakespearean in its tragedy. I hope we get hillary, but at the same time, I can’t look upon the democrats with any hope that they are somehow transcendent, and in the reality bush and the bi-partisan Congress has created, that is now not going to go away, mccain is a better bet.
I can just see how obama will be treated by arabs as a black man whose wife tells him what to do…, and that his feet stink.
Maybe he can draft oprah to his foreign policy cabinet, what with all the success the gay black woman condi had convincing arabs of our altruism. Yeah, that ‘aint PC. Want some peace in the mid east? Send a warrior white man. They all remember well what happened at Vienna in 1520.
The point is can we send someone they can respect, and is culturally relevant to them.., or to any country we have dealings with for that matter? Sending condi to the mideast is like having me as opening speaker at a NAMBLA convention.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Here is great article from alternet about the obama thing.
For me obama viscerally never rang true, his words while well spoken are empty. When compared to any policies he stands for, if they are to be found, they don’t match up.
Then I found out about who is backing him in foreign policy, zbignew and crew, and that sealed it.
I am cynical alright, but my parents told me they loved me. I was born with it, must be a past life thing.
It has only become a healthy skepticism as I get older, and the volumes of history I read, from as many biased points of view and revisions I can find. No one was ever disappointed underestimating the corruption of the elite. That said our humanity is the only thing that has kept the People going. Too sad that it happens to give the elites…that much more to take.
Read the piece and then ask yourself what it is out of your leaders you want, that you could not get for yourself? Our enemy is the system that puts a guy like obama up, while wiping a Kucinich off the map, leaving the People to the wolves.
For my part, our future as the economy tanks hard, is in the States. Look at Vermont, the character is in the People, not the leaders, though they reflect them well.
Vermont has civil unions.
Vermont has universal health coverage.
Brattleboro Vermont, will arrest bush/cheney, if they happen through.
You can carry a concealed weapon with no permit, if not a felon.
Vermont is the only State bush/cheney haven’t gone to, in all their years in office.
In order to prioritize what is a right of the people, ask them at the State level, if the population is resistant, keep trying if you want.
As Lou Reed says, “I do believe, if you don’t like things you leave, to a place you’ve never been before”….
March 7th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
If the Republican lead Florida legislature had it in mind to foul up the Democrats when they set the primary date earlier, then hats off to them for pulling off one of the greatest political feats in history.
The truth is that the reason Democrats are in the mind they are is because every rule they made in the beginning was set up for a Hillary Clinton coronation. They never considered she would have any serious opposition so they made all the rules accordingly. What is really going to hurt the Democrats is the late convention (August). They may very well come out of it reeling only a few months before the election.
Even now the DNC is tyring to save it for Hillary. If they give Florida and Michigan a re-vote it will be specifically designed to help her.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
When some ONE is ‘out of thier mind’, how can they presume to cast such a ridiculous net over millions of others?
Are there drugs involved? It would be reckless not to speculate.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:28 am
Ken,
You have made a lot of out there arguments around the bloghive of late, but that is possibly the most uninformed yet. I’m going to make you an award of some kind.
And Glenden, “Hellelujah, brotha.” One of my favorite posts on this issue to date can be found here. Aptly titled “Eff Em.”
March 8th, 2008 at 7:15 am
I have to concur with jasonthe here. I think Ken’s assumption that the democratic act in unison under direction from some unaccountable inner cabal can only be the result of having been sheltered, suffocated and raised under some similarly authoritarian paradigm.
Given the obvious-to-any-observer fact that the DNC, state parties, civic leaders, elected officials, state legislators and rank and file members all behave and act independently (and sometimes in direct conflict) of one another, how on Earth, someone can still think “Democrats are in the mind they are is because every rule they made in the beginning was set up for a Hillary Clinton coronation?”
And herein lies the essence of the diff between bad republicans (the majority) and good
Americansdemocrats.Most hard right-wing Republicans assume everyone else is as evil, underhanded, secretive and obediently collaborative as they are….
I love Ken because when he criticizes democrats and liberals, its like he is holding up a mirror to himself and the authoritarian way of thinking.
Ken, tribal thinking must be like a intellectual prison. Crack it open man. Take some LSD or something.
Life is not preordained. Most of whatever you think you know when you are young, turns out to be irrelevant if not wrong. There is not giant cabal with a clear fixed plan to “get” you, (except maybe one in SLC that wants to “keep” you and your money).
You are really quite alone. Don’t let the fact of your intrinsic sovereignty and freedom smack you in the butt.