Als’ not a scientist. Who is denying that the world is warming?
He does however stand to make a fortune with his corporation which will trade in carbon credits if the fools of the world buy his spiel.
There can be little doubt of global warming, since a volume of ice that lay upon the continents that lowered sea level by 300 feet, has melted in the last 13,000 years. Good thing too, or we would not be here on Earth in the alarming number of 6-7 billion.
How did this happen? How did 3600 inches of sea level rise occur in the geologic blink of an eye of 130 centuries? Well, the continental glaciers melted. It is from the data clear that atmospheric carbon was not the driver of that warming event. In fact increased carbon is now seen as a lagging indicator in warming events.
Needless to say, if “science” cannot yet describe the driver of the unbelievable massive warming that melted a volume of ice that lay upon the Earths land that sea level was 300 FEET lower than it is today, what is to make us accept that the data being put forth today, that man is responsible for warming?
The current warm up is concurrent with that warming that melted a volume of ice that lay upon most of the northern and southern latitudes, in many places, near 10,000 ft thick.
Many serious, highly intelligent, educated people can come off a bit freakish, but I’m not sure you should include that criteria in your decision making process about climate change and your personal convictions about it.
Just as I am sure you ignore the freakishness of the scientists who designed the sewage flow systems that insures your enormous quotidian discharges flow far from your food and water sources with a simple flush.
Once again Algore is not a scientist, and his excrement smells as bad as anyones’ and worse than most. A sewer system is a rather simple thing, in fact ancient civilisations had them in better use than many countries today. Just irrigation in “reverse”. Equating such a thing with the dynamics of Earth warming within the context of all the factors that come to play, and solar system dynamics, is just plain silly.
As for car salesman als’ own carbon footprint, I am sure he will never change his “lifestyle” and will simply buy the carbon credits with the money from his own very elaborate carbon credit corporation he is wanting to create.
Then he can fly around with his 20,000 gallons plus of kerosene propelled jet airplane, and heat and run his 10,500 sq ft. mansion in good conscience.
I can only imagine that the inventor of the internet thinks the rest of humanity is as stupid as he once was, and that no one notices that Castanada of Carbon is really a foolish fraud.
Al Gore, even when he isn’t living in the house the majority of Americans voted him into is a principal leading figure and champion for the better intentions of our society.
Around OneUtah lurks a Lon Chaney like, but very articulate antagonist who uses right wing pop culture arguments to discredit a man who is trying to save what’s left of us. Come on glenn, you don’t have to stoop to talking about Al Gores mansions and jets to make your points. Leave that crap to Hannity. You’re better then that!
Larry the man is a charlatan, the fact that you cannot see it is most disturbing. It has now become a new form of religion, he the priest with his antics.
The mans lifestyle is not an issue? His personal hypocrisy is not subject review? Coming from Utah it reminds me a lot of the lack of introspection on the like of Joseph Smith in his lifestyle, another religious style demagogue.
Better intentions of our society? If he is the leader, count me out.
Who is Glen?
Sideshow al is a fraud. What’s left of us? There are 7 billion humans here, we are quite successful, and any problems of scarcity and environmental challenges were inevitable. Get used to it, far be it from people to accept it in this day and age, it is a permanent condition of humanity now, and always has been.
Algore is an opportunist. It is his ticket to fame and fortune. Big business now sees money in global warming hysteria which is why they have jumped on the band wagon. Government loves the idea because it is a way to get people to voluntarily give up freedom and pay more taxes. left wingers love it because they see it as a catalyst to push trough their agenda. Everybody loves it except for us middle class and lower class shlubs that will see our taxes, energy bills, and food prices skyrocket, and our liberty and standard of living plummet. And after all the suffering and sacrifice it will not effect climate in the least.
Throughout history people have believed they can effect the weather and the climate by sacrificing virgins, or paying homage to the Gods, or dancing around campfires, but now instead of sacrificing virgins we are told to sacrifice our money and our freedom. Sadly, with similar results.
The danger in global warming is not how it will effect the climate, but the catastrophe it is going to cause in the 3rd world. Right now developing countries are being pressured to slow down in the name of climate change. this means more poverty and suffering. Yes global warming will kill millions but it won’t be changes in temperature. It will be they who are sacrificed to appease the Gods of liberalism.
There’s nothing left for Al Gore to take from us. Our future has been blown “over there.”
Thank goodness we don’t have opportunists with agendas in the White House now. huh?
Glacier National Park is losing it’s glaciers.
The fact that things have to get worse before they can get better offer Gore an opportunity to fulfill his long sought agenda and calling. What a bastard!
Ken, our sacrifice will not be to the gods of ‘liberalism’ but to Mammon! Think large corporations (where by mergers and other chicanery, the pinnacle has soared). The horizon which thier wealth represents is so far out of view they don’t even know how wealthy they are. All they do know is that practically any politician is within thier price range with billions to spare.
I saw this the other day:
1 million seconds = 12 days
1 billion seconds = 32 years
1 trillion seconds - 32,000 years
Corporations turn billions of $ and the cost of Iraq is slated to exceed 3 trillion, and really, exceed by what factor? In 95 years, it could be quite a large number.
It’s only money people, and if you were not aware, there has never, ever, been an unbacked fiat paper currency that has survived inflation, ever. Plain history.
All the things that are around you are the wealth of our nation, any “money” debt can be repudiated by the People, if there is solidarity, and a willingness to start over.
Thinking you owe, or are broke in dollar terms is a losers mindset. Your lives, this Earth are not made by money, we are both elemental, that is all that needs believing.
Destroy the banksters, and the rest will follow. You have money in your pockets, quit spending it and see what happens, the elites will rush to accommodate you. Or kill you.
Who cares about glaciers? You cannot establish a civilisation on one. If they covered the Earth we would be wondering how to melt them. Get real and adapt to this changing world, mourn the passing of what you loved, and move forward. What other choice is there Larry?
Excellent article. It is going to be fun to watch these politicians and scientists squirm when they are forced to admit global warming was wrong. Leftists wont squirm though because they will still believe it and turn on the very scientists and politicians they now rely on to validate their beliefs. The left will go a hundred years and keep telling us global warming is just around the corner. They are true believers and no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever sway a true believer. It is now the left who are wearing the tin foil hats.
I’ll give up some freedoms to reduce global warming. I’ll give up the freedom to exploit the earths natural resources and people for personal gain and profit. I’ll give up the freedom to buy cheap shit from China at Walmart. I’ll give up the freedom to use forced labor in offshore factories that poison the workers and the environment.
I’ll give up the freedom to turn my heat up to 80 and my a/c down to 60.
I’ll give up the right to pump as much shit out my tailpipe as I want.
And lastly, if you admit global warming is caused by man, I’ll give up the freedom to remind you regularly of your tribal, authoritarian ways, and to marry your wife in a secret ceremony without your knowledge.
The lateral thinkers for commercial solutions…that is an ad Larry. Oh boy, this is going fun as the paradigm falls apart. As if trading carbon credits as algore suggests won’t be a multi billion dollar business.
Anyone with enough science background, that has studied climatic shifts at the geologic level, and the common sense application of basic science to the incidence of warming can come to the same conclusions.
The Earths atmosphere adjoins space where temperatures are absolute zero, the more heat that the Earth produces, the more heat is dissipated at this juncture. As rain falls, clouds thin, and the heat from the cloud rises as the rain falls, to meet the freezing domains of space. This is why heating cannot continue unabated, the system is quite self regulating. No doubt it has its highs and lows, but as the article points out, warming is of far less disaster than a turn to the colder. With our current dependence on energy, what pray tell would people use to warm themselves if we descend into an ice age? If you think we have trouble now, watch what happens when you cannot go outside for long, or grow crops, and have to pay to heat your life. Stop imagining that Earth is a static climactic environ, because it isn’t, and never has been, it is either cooling or warming, and is seldom static for long.
sidenote: Have you all noticed how your cars slurp more fuel when it is very cold? An ICE is just a heat pump, and they don’t work as efficiently in the cold. Plus, they pollute more.The idle “warm up” phase produces the most pollution as it is the most inefficient period, and much of the fuel just goes right out your tailpipe. I have driven my Toyota for 17 years now and have never warmed it up. The moment I start it, I drive away. It is now running happily with 250,000 miles on it, and has never had an engine rebuild.
Back to silver linings.
Since the bulk of the Earths landmass is in the upper northern latitudes, warming, should it continue, will open and improve vast tracts of currently unusable land for agriculture in the north. With world grain stocks lower than they have been in 50 years, this will be good. We may want to however stop using food grains to make fuel, about the stupidest thing ever carried out in modern times. Might as well burn what we cannot eat first.
For you in Utah, it may just dry out, but that already happened to the Fremont and Anazazi in Utah 900 yrs ago. Ruin Valley near the Blue Mtns. in Moab has 2 story homes all at the banks of a creek…that is now dry. I speculate it used the run when the homes were built, then the climate changed, and the Indians ADAPTED, and moved.
Consider that at one time in the not too distant past
(17k years ago), the entire SL Basin was under 900 ft. of water, and Lake Bonneville drained into the Snake River drainage around Sweetzer Summit north of Ogden. It drained largely when the natural dam at Red Rock Idaho was breached. Good thing it warmed up though, or you wouldn’t live in Zions main city, unless you were a fish. It would still be under water. Maybe in the future Utah won’t be the place after all. Adapt.
You give up your habits as you see fit to believe Cliff, and leave anyone that doesn’t agree with your religious belief of unabated warming out of it.
Still pushing the V-6 SUV abomination? Still living on savings from outsourcing? Isn’t it great to get religion later in life, after the sins are all committed, and the cash is in the bank?
Ken isn’t the one attempting to alter ways of life based upon specious data. You are. There will be no general accord on carbon production, it is silly, we won’t sign, even Canada won’t sign, and neither will china. So who lost this battle? The idea that it will happen is now less likely as the contra evidence is piling up.
I already know which side you would be on at the Salem witch trials, you would the shrilly shrieking man crying heretic as Ken wows the crowd with a simple card trick.
But the United States was going to fit the bill, and big time. Not to mention crippling our economy. All the while the biggest polluters in the world like China and India are exempt. Yea, if I was a third world dictator and was promised big money from the United States to not develop and keep my people poor, sure I’d sign.
I suppose that if crippling the economy were the goal, there would be more than one way to skin that cat. Certainly a quagmire in the ME would accomplish the same end. Encouraging subprime lending, and brrowing heavily from the unborn would suit the bill as well. So when they combined all the above (and surely some more that may not have surfaced), it’s a pretty good bet that the economy would suffer mightily. Not to mention those others who might gladly get on board with our chickens coming home to roost. Tax breaks for the rich! What could the have been thinking? In this case, I’ll grant their success.
So what if there’s sketchiness about just when and where (or if, for that matter) the global environmental structure begins to respond to our effluent. So what if we can’t nail that time line to the day. There’s gotta be another level of effort and cooperation that would enable the disparate communal threads to come to some agreement. The trashing of the constitution for example. Or would it be too much to ask the righteous and fully informed wingnuts to question some of the lies the Bush crime axis has attempted to lay on us. What about torture, or Habeous Corpus? It’s as if one sip of the kool-aid demands a complete submission to every wacky idea of those who are creating this new, not so wonderful reality they’re shoving through the fan at us. Proudly and arrogantly.
You want to argue about anything and everything? Pathetic.
I ain’t buying. You may, but then you always will.
So are you driving the 6 cylinder SUV abomination Cliff? I daresay my carbon footprint as a vegan, and user of alternative energy is far lower than most people in the western world.
Look, the single greatest contributor of carbon currently is the extraction of oil from tar sands in Alberta. (They cook the tar sand with natural gas, then the refine the crude, more cooking, then ship overseas, more fuel burning in a giant ship, then it gets burned in an oil fired electric plant or someones car).
This is absolutely not going to stop. There is no intent to act on Kyoto in Canada. Sign in please, sure no problem eh?
China is on track to build 500, 500 MW coal burning generators in 5 years. The commies say, sure we’ll sign the diaper. The US is about the only honest one of the bunch, we are not going to blow sunshine up your ass dear world, we won’t sign a meaningless post it.
Anyone watching the Sun? Sunspot activity is at an extreme low, and from HISTORIC observation we can assume that it is about to get a bit cooler in the next few years. Carbon isn’t the driver of warming, and the data cannot prove that it is. I would venture to say that..
MAN has created more warming from paving the green grass than from producing more carbon. Who is to know? That research is wanting and of the same form as the carbon data.
No one has ever attempted to explain the end of the last ice age, and how the Earth warmed so much to accomplish this. I have asked this repeatedly. If you cannot explain how this happened why in the hell can you predict what is going to happen now? It goes against ALL precepts of science and logic. A then B. Since the melted continental glaciers represent a factor of warming far greater than what we currently MAY face, if you don’t know how this happened, your following conclusions from a clearly different source cannot be given much merit.
It’s called DOING YOUR HOMEWORK. Until the time comes that we can know why a mass of ice that lay upon the land to the extent that sea level was 300 FEET below where it is today, and then “spontaneously” MELTED to leave us where we are today…
…let’s just say that many people see the political drive behind what is a clearly unprovable anthropogenic global warming THEORY!
You remind me of McCain. Can’t get your facts straight. All the empirical evidence shows that new technologies and consumer behavior related to sustainability have a positive impact on economies.
There are lots of studies that show this and none that contradict it.
I bet you also think tax cuts to the rich stimulate the economy too. Are you making more yet than you did at Delta five years ago?
Cliff make a list of the elements of your life that are part of this sustainable economy, and how they are making positive gains in your economy. What are you referring to anyway? What has been implemented in America that you could call sustainable?
Keep in mind that the economy is in the tank and there isn’t too much positive about it right now on any front.
No, not yet but I was at Delta for 17 years. When I started I was making $8 an hour. I now have a job where I am troubleshooting routers and I started this job only about $5 an hour less than I made when I left Delta, but it won’t be long before I make more than I ever would have at Delta once I get some certifications.
I have to admit though this has been the hardest few years of my life, financially, and educationally. The future looks bright. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully it’s not a train light.
Ken, I am truly glad to see you addressing matters head on. Your generation has been badly screwed by your timing and the economy.
Frankly, I don’t know how you support a family of four on even $17/hour. Even with your wife working, things must be very tight.
It didn’t used to be like that. In the 70’s and 80’s, a man could make a decent living with a high school education and a union job.
No more. The American dream is just a rumor for your generation. Its dead.
How many years total and at what expense (tuition, lost wages) will it have taken you just to get back to $17/hour? Even at $17, thats about $2100/month after taxes.
And few of those jobs provide health ins and retirement.. You gotta be with the UofU or what, who, Kennecott maybe?
The only light at the end of that tunnel, is a dramatic re-distribution of wealth, a living wage law (a huge economic stimulant), universal health care and a much higher top tax rate.
By any practical reasoning, you SHOULD be a liberal democrat. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people like you vote AGAINST their best interest when voting Republican.
But hey. That means you are for homosexuals, abortion and giving up you hand guns.
When did the promulgation of discriminatory laws against gay folks become more important than your family’s financial security?
When did surrendering family planning decisions from family and doctor to politicians and judges, become more important than your girls’ health care?
THIS is the greatest anthropological conundrum of our time?
The issues you support and the ones Ken supports, are not mutually exclusive.
We can raise the top tax rate, give gays their rights, have universal health care and keep our handguns. There is no option to remove handguns. We will not re-establish slavery, we will not disarm the American people.
These are basic inalienable rights. The Washington DC challenge confirms the individual right to arms.
Consider the path of thomas friedman that you Cliff used to be so enthused about. Oh I can remember the prattling on about how good globalization was for America, and how we would all benefit. These lies coming from a “committed” progressives mouth. Commitment alright, top floor of the looney bin.
Both parties have brought the downfall of the American standard of living, both attitudes have been completely wrong, and we will soon find how wrong. The criticisms of Ken, Cliff would be be what any forward thinking progressive could have said to you 10 years ago.
So Cliff, when did you have your revelation? Before the lexus and the olive tree garbage or after? It is pretty obvious from your recent piety that the altar is piled high with excuses.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Als’ not a scientist. Who is denying that the world is warming?
He does however stand to make a fortune with his corporation which will trade in carbon credits if the fools of the world buy his spiel.
There can be little doubt of global warming, since a volume of ice that lay upon the continents that lowered sea level by 300 feet, has melted in the last 13,000 years. Good thing too, or we would not be here on Earth in the alarming number of 6-7 billion.
How did this happen? How did 3600 inches of sea level rise occur in the geologic blink of an eye of 130 centuries? Well, the continental glaciers melted. It is from the data clear that atmospheric carbon was not the driver of that warming event. In fact increased carbon is now seen as a lagging indicator in warming events.
Needless to say, if “science” cannot yet describe the driver of the unbelievable massive warming that melted a volume of ice that lay upon the Earths land that sea level was 300 FEET lower than it is today, what is to make us accept that the data being put forth today, that man is responsible for warming?
The current warm up is concurrent with that warming that melted a volume of ice that lay upon most of the northern and southern latitudes, in many places, near 10,000 ft thick.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:21 am
This is new and tracks CO2 sources in the US in real time.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Cliff
You are right about one thing. Algore is a side show freak.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:51 am
and then this neat article about what the warming politics are all about.
April 8th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Hi Ken,
Many serious, highly intelligent, educated people can come off a bit freakish, but I’m not sure you should include that criteria in your decision making process about climate change and your personal convictions about it.
Just as I am sure you ignore the freakishness of the scientists who designed the sewage flow systems that insures your enormous quotidian discharges flow far from your food and water sources with a simple flush.
April 8th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Once again Algore is not a scientist, and his excrement smells as bad as anyones’ and worse than most. A sewer system is a rather simple thing, in fact ancient civilisations had them in better use than many countries today. Just irrigation in “reverse”. Equating such a thing with the dynamics of Earth warming within the context of all the factors that come to play, and solar system dynamics, is just plain silly.
As for car salesman als’ own carbon footprint, I am sure he will never change his “lifestyle” and will simply buy the carbon credits with the money from his own very elaborate carbon credit corporation he is wanting to create.
Then he can fly around with his 20,000 gallons plus of kerosene propelled jet airplane, and heat and run his 10,500 sq ft. mansion in good conscience.
I can only imagine that the inventor of the internet thinks the rest of humanity is as stupid as he once was, and that no one notices that Castanada of Carbon is really a foolish fraud.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Al Gore, even when he isn’t living in the house the majority of Americans voted him into is a principal leading figure and champion for the better intentions of our society.
Around OneUtah lurks a Lon Chaney like, but very articulate antagonist who uses right wing pop culture arguments to discredit a man who is trying to save what’s left of us. Come on glenn, you don’t have to stoop to talking about Al Gores mansions and jets to make your points. Leave that crap to Hannity. You’re better then that!
April 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Larry the man is a charlatan, the fact that you cannot see it is most disturbing. It has now become a new form of religion, he the priest with his antics.
The mans lifestyle is not an issue? His personal hypocrisy is not subject review? Coming from Utah it reminds me a lot of the lack of introspection on the like of Joseph Smith in his lifestyle, another religious style demagogue.
Better intentions of our society? If he is the leader, count me out.
Who is Glen?
Sideshow al is a fraud. What’s left of us? There are 7 billion humans here, we are quite successful, and any problems of scarcity and environmental challenges were inevitable. Get used to it, far be it from people to accept it in this day and age, it is a permanent condition of humanity now, and always has been.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Algore is an opportunist. It is his ticket to fame and fortune. Big business now sees money in global warming hysteria which is why they have jumped on the band wagon. Government loves the idea because it is a way to get people to voluntarily give up freedom and pay more taxes. left wingers love it because they see it as a catalyst to push trough their agenda. Everybody loves it except for us middle class and lower class shlubs that will see our taxes, energy bills, and food prices skyrocket, and our liberty and standard of living plummet. And after all the suffering and sacrifice it will not effect climate in the least.
Throughout history people have believed they can effect the weather and the climate by sacrificing virgins, or paying homage to the Gods, or dancing around campfires, but now instead of sacrificing virgins we are told to sacrifice our money and our freedom. Sadly, with similar results.
The danger in global warming is not how it will effect the climate, but the catastrophe it is going to cause in the 3rd world. Right now developing countries are being pressured to slow down in the name of climate change. this means more poverty and suffering. Yes global warming will kill millions but it won’t be changes in temperature. It will be they who are sacrificed to appease the Gods of liberalism.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Ken:
There’s nothing left for Al Gore to take from us. Our future has been blown “over there.”
Thank goodness we don’t have opportunists with agendas in the White House now. huh?
Glacier National Park is losing it’s glaciers.
The fact that things have to get worse before they can get better offer Gore an opportunity to fulfill his long sought agenda and calling. What a bastard!
April 8th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Here is a question for you liberals. Exactly what freedoms are you willing to give up in the name of global warming? I would really like to know.
April 8th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Ken, our sacrifice will not be to the gods of ‘liberalism’ but to Mammon! Think large corporations (where by mergers and other chicanery, the pinnacle has soared). The horizon which thier wealth represents is so far out of view they don’t even know how wealthy they are. All they do know is that practically any politician is within thier price range with billions to spare.
I saw this the other day:
1 million seconds = 12 days
1 billion seconds = 32 years
1 trillion seconds - 32,000 years
Corporations turn billions of $ and the cost of Iraq is slated to exceed 3 trillion, and really, exceed by what factor? In 95 years, it could be quite a large number.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
It’s only money people, and if you were not aware, there has never, ever, been an unbacked fiat paper currency that has survived inflation, ever. Plain history.
All the things that are around you are the wealth of our nation, any “money” debt can be repudiated by the People, if there is solidarity, and a willingness to start over.
Thinking you owe, or are broke in dollar terms is a losers mindset. Your lives, this Earth are not made by money, we are both elemental, that is all that needs believing.
Destroy the banksters, and the rest will follow. You have money in your pockets, quit spending it and see what happens, the elites will rush to accommodate you. Or kill you.
Who cares about glaciers? You cannot establish a civilisation on one. If they covered the Earth we would be wondering how to melt them. Get real and adapt to this changing world, mourn the passing of what you loved, and move forward. What other choice is there Larry?
April 8th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
A must read from down under, seems the warming skeptics are spanning the globe
April 8th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Anonomous
Excellent article. It is going to be fun to watch these politicians and scientists squirm when they are forced to admit global warming was wrong. Leftists wont squirm though because they will still believe it and turn on the very scientists and politicians they now rely on to validate their beliefs. The left will go a hundred years and keep telling us global warming is just around the corner. They are true believers and no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever sway a true believer. It is now the left who are wearing the tin foil hats.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Ken Bingham accusing liberals of wearing tin foil hats is like the Ayatollah Khoemeni accusing Buddhists monks of being a bunch of ragheads.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Oh my God!
The lateral thinkers for commercial solutions at The National Business Review are calling Al Gore an alarmist. I better rethink this!
How could I have been so blind!
Would you people please just stop.
Ken, why don’t you start out by telling me what freedoms I still HAVE. The bill of rights is completely up to Bush’s discretion. Didn’t you know that?
April 9th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Project much, Ken?
April 9th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Hey Bingham Shlameal,
I’ll give up some freedoms to reduce global warming. I’ll give up the freedom to exploit the earths natural resources and people for personal gain and profit. I’ll give up the freedom to buy cheap shit from China at Walmart. I’ll give up the freedom to use forced labor in offshore factories that poison the workers and the environment.
I’ll give up the freedom to turn my heat up to 80 and my a/c down to 60.
I’ll give up the right to pump as much shit out my tailpipe as I want.
And lastly, if you admit global warming is caused by man, I’ll give up the freedom to remind you regularly of your tribal, authoritarian ways, and to marry your wife in a secret ceremony without your knowledge.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:12 am
The lateral thinkers for commercial solutions…that is an ad Larry. Oh boy, this is going fun as the paradigm falls apart. As if trading carbon credits as algore suggests won’t be a multi billion dollar business.
Anyone with enough science background, that has studied climatic shifts at the geologic level, and the common sense application of basic science to the incidence of warming can come to the same conclusions.
The Earths atmosphere adjoins space where temperatures are absolute zero, the more heat that the Earth produces, the more heat is dissipated at this juncture. As rain falls, clouds thin, and the heat from the cloud rises as the rain falls, to meet the freezing domains of space. This is why heating cannot continue unabated, the system is quite self regulating. No doubt it has its highs and lows, but as the article points out, warming is of far less disaster than a turn to the colder. With our current dependence on energy, what pray tell would people use to warm themselves if we descend into an ice age? If you think we have trouble now, watch what happens when you cannot go outside for long, or grow crops, and have to pay to heat your life. Stop imagining that Earth is a static climactic environ, because it isn’t, and never has been, it is either cooling or warming, and is seldom static for long.
sidenote: Have you all noticed how your cars slurp more fuel when it is very cold? An ICE is just a heat pump, and they don’t work as efficiently in the cold. Plus, they pollute more.The idle “warm up” phase produces the most pollution as it is the most inefficient period, and much of the fuel just goes right out your tailpipe. I have driven my Toyota for 17 years now and have never warmed it up. The moment I start it, I drive away. It is now running happily with 250,000 miles on it, and has never had an engine rebuild.
Back to silver linings.
Since the bulk of the Earths landmass is in the upper northern latitudes, warming, should it continue, will open and improve vast tracts of currently unusable land for agriculture in the north. With world grain stocks lower than they have been in 50 years, this will be good. We may want to however stop using food grains to make fuel, about the stupidest thing ever carried out in modern times. Might as well burn what we cannot eat first.
For you in Utah, it may just dry out, but that already happened to the Fremont and Anazazi in Utah 900 yrs ago. Ruin Valley near the Blue Mtns. in Moab has 2 story homes all at the banks of a creek…that is now dry. I speculate it used the run when the homes were built, then the climate changed, and the Indians ADAPTED, and moved.
Consider that at one time in the not too distant past
(17k years ago), the entire SL Basin was under 900 ft. of water, and Lake Bonneville drained into the Snake River drainage around Sweetzer Summit north of Ogden. It drained largely when the natural dam at Red Rock Idaho was breached. Good thing it warmed up though, or you wouldn’t live in Zions main city, unless you were a fish. It would still be under water. Maybe in the future Utah won’t be the place after all. Adapt.
You give up your habits as you see fit to believe Cliff, and leave anyone that doesn’t agree with your religious belief of unabated warming out of it.
Still pushing the V-6 SUV abomination? Still living on savings from outsourcing? Isn’t it great to get religion later in life, after the sins are all committed, and the cash is in the bank?
April 9th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Yet another smack down of the oil industry paid so-called-scientist skeptics.
Solar Science Research Contradicts Climate Change Skeptics
You guys (Ken and Glenn (Anonymous) must know that you WILL not lose this battle because you HAVE ALREADY lost.
I can only imagine which side of the Salem Witch Trials you would have been on.
April 9th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Ken isn’t the one attempting to alter ways of life based upon specious data. You are. There will be no general accord on carbon production, it is silly, we won’t sign, even Canada won’t sign, and neither will china. So who lost this battle? The idea that it will happen is now less likely as the contra evidence is piling up.
I already know which side you would be on at the Salem witch trials, you would the shrilly shrieking man crying heretic as Ken wows the crowd with a simple card trick.
As for the link, it says it all….not found.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Everyone has signed Kyoto EXCEPT the US.
Your entire premise is that YOU think the data is specious and therefore, we should do nothing?
Such thinking is, well…Hefferesque
April 9th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Cliff
But the United States was going to fit the bill, and big time. Not to mention crippling our economy. All the while the biggest polluters in the world like China and India are exempt. Yea, if I was a third world dictator and was promised big money from the United States to not develop and keep my people poor, sure I’d sign.
April 9th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I suppose that if crippling the economy were the goal, there would be more than one way to skin that cat. Certainly a quagmire in the ME would accomplish the same end. Encouraging subprime lending, and brrowing heavily from the unborn would suit the bill as well. So when they combined all the above (and surely some more that may not have surfaced), it’s a pretty good bet that the economy would suffer mightily. Not to mention those others who might gladly get on board with our chickens coming home to roost. Tax breaks for the rich! What could the have been thinking? In this case, I’ll grant their success.
So what if there’s sketchiness about just when and where (or if, for that matter) the global environmental structure begins to respond to our effluent. So what if we can’t nail that time line to the day. There’s gotta be another level of effort and cooperation that would enable the disparate communal threads to come to some agreement. The trashing of the constitution for example. Or would it be too much to ask the righteous and fully informed wingnuts to question some of the lies the Bush crime axis has attempted to lay on us. What about torture, or Habeous Corpus? It’s as if one sip of the kool-aid demands a complete submission to every wacky idea of those who are creating this new, not so wonderful reality they’re shoving through the fan at us. Proudly and arrogantly.
You want to argue about anything and everything? Pathetic.
I ain’t buying. You may, but then you always will.
April 9th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Ken:
So what are you saying, we all just race to the bottom?
April 9th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
So are you driving the 6 cylinder SUV abomination Cliff? I daresay my carbon footprint as a vegan, and user of alternative energy is far lower than most people in the western world.
Look, the single greatest contributor of carbon currently is the extraction of oil from tar sands in Alberta. (They cook the tar sand with natural gas, then the refine the crude, more cooking, then ship overseas, more fuel burning in a giant ship, then it gets burned in an oil fired electric plant or someones car).
This is absolutely not going to stop. There is no intent to act on Kyoto in Canada. Sign in please, sure no problem eh?
China is on track to build 500, 500 MW coal burning generators in 5 years. The commies say, sure we’ll sign the diaper. The US is about the only honest one of the bunch, we are not going to blow sunshine up your ass dear world, we won’t sign a meaningless post it.
Anyone watching the Sun? Sunspot activity is at an extreme low, and from HISTORIC observation we can assume that it is about to get a bit cooler in the next few years. Carbon isn’t the driver of warming, and the data cannot prove that it is. I would venture to say that..
MAN has created more warming from paving the green grass than from producing more carbon. Who is to know? That research is wanting and of the same form as the carbon data.
No one has ever attempted to explain the end of the last ice age, and how the Earth warmed so much to accomplish this. I have asked this repeatedly. If you cannot explain how this happened why in the hell can you predict what is going to happen now? It goes against ALL precepts of science and logic. A then B. Since the melted continental glaciers represent a factor of warming far greater than what we currently MAY face, if you don’t know how this happened, your following conclusions from a clearly different source cannot be given much merit.
It’s called DOING YOUR HOMEWORK. Until the time comes that we can know why a mass of ice that lay upon the land to the extent that sea level was 300 FEET below where it is today, and then “spontaneously” MELTED to leave us where we are today…
…let’s just say that many people see the political drive behind what is a clearly unprovable anthropogenic global warming THEORY!
April 10th, 2008 at 5:46 am
Ken,
You remind me of McCain. Can’t get your facts straight. All the empirical evidence shows that new technologies and consumer behavior related to sustainability have a positive impact on economies.
There are lots of studies that show this and none that contradict it.
I bet you also think tax cuts to the rich stimulate the economy too. Are you making more yet than you did at Delta five years ago?
April 10th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Cliff make a list of the elements of your life that are part of this sustainable economy, and how they are making positive gains in your economy. What are you referring to anyway? What has been implemented in America that you could call sustainable?
Keep in mind that the economy is in the tank and there isn’t too much positive about it right now on any front.
April 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Cliff
No, not yet but I was at Delta for 17 years. When I started I was making $8 an hour. I now have a job where I am troubleshooting routers and I started this job only about $5 an hour less than I made when I left Delta, but it won’t be long before I make more than I ever would have at Delta once I get some certifications.
I have to admit though this has been the hardest few years of my life, financially, and educationally. The future looks bright. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully it’s not a train light.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Ken, I am truly glad to see you addressing matters head on. Your generation has been badly screwed by your timing and the economy.
Frankly, I don’t know how you support a family of four on even $17/hour. Even with your wife working, things must be very tight.
It didn’t used to be like that. In the 70’s and 80’s, a man could make a decent living with a high school education and a union job.
No more. The American dream is just a rumor for your generation. Its dead.
How many years total and at what expense (tuition, lost wages) will it have taken you just to get back to $17/hour? Even at $17, thats about $2100/month after taxes.
And few of those jobs provide health ins and retirement.. You gotta be with the UofU or what, who, Kennecott maybe?
The only light at the end of that tunnel, is a dramatic re-distribution of wealth, a living wage law (a huge economic stimulant), universal health care and a much higher top tax rate.
By any practical reasoning, you SHOULD be a liberal democrat. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people like you vote AGAINST their best interest when voting Republican.
But hey. That means you are for homosexuals, abortion and giving up you hand guns.
When did the promulgation of discriminatory laws against gay folks become more important than your family’s financial security?
When did surrendering family planning decisions from family and doctor to politicians and judges, become more important than your girls’ health care?
THIS is the greatest anthropological conundrum of our time?
And the scientific answer is…?
…Ronald Reagan. Hollywood actor.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Cliff, it’s simple. It’s the liberalo-fascists!
April 13th, 2008 at 9:53 am
The issues you support and the ones Ken supports, are not mutually exclusive.
We can raise the top tax rate, give gays their rights, have universal health care and keep our handguns. There is no option to remove handguns. We will not re-establish slavery, we will not disarm the American people.
These are basic inalienable rights. The Washington DC challenge confirms the individual right to arms.
Consider the path of thomas friedman that you Cliff used to be so enthused about. Oh I can remember the prattling on about how good globalization was for America, and how we would all benefit. These lies coming from a “committed” progressives mouth. Commitment alright, top floor of the looney bin.
Both parties have brought the downfall of the American standard of living, both attitudes have been completely wrong, and we will soon find how wrong. The criticisms of Ken, Cliff would be be what any forward thinking progressive could have said to you 10 years ago.
So Cliff, when did you have your revelation? Before the lexus and the olive tree garbage or after? It is pretty obvious from your recent piety that the altar is piled high with excuses.