Gun Loving White Preacher Speaks to KKK (NRA)
This is just mind boggling. Could it be something in the air at NRA conventions?
Is it possible that the attraction of NRA gatherings, which are attended almost exclusively by white men and always held south of the Mason Dixon line, is that they are really just KKK meetings by another name?
Actually yes. Thanks for asking. Despite the hysterical denials and obscure reasoning of white, male, predictably racist gun advocates. The NRA was formed almost immediately following the outlawing of the Klu Klux Klan (KKK). But the NRA did not claim rights based upon the constitution, rather, they lobbied very successfully for laws that forbid blacks from owing guns.
I can’t imagine this will come as a surprise to our johnny-come-lately (as in since Heston came along), self-proclaimed, legal expert, revisionist historian friends.
This simple snap-shot of American history makes it all so clear.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Mike (I hate Mormons) Huckleberry may have taken his name of of John (The RINO) McCain’s short list for his VP running mate.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:11 am
But he looks like such a nice man!
May 18th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Ken,
As you must know by now, the Republican party is in great turmoil. In their words, the “brand” is not doing well.
But the consensus seems to be that the rank in file have slid — or followed (surprise surprise) — too far right. It certainly hasn’t helped that the radical fringe began labeling the moderates RINOs.
I guess you get a dangerous brew when you mix a spineless moderate middle with crazed religious extremist. You see, the authoritarian mindset is overly driven by things like status and loyalty to tribe. So when your heroes (Bush, Rove, Cheney, Hatch, Cannon, et. al.) re-drew the line (raised the bar), the middle came running out of fear (another common characteristic of Republican politics) trampling one another in the process.
Thing is, it is YOUR team — the religious extremist — who will be marginalized in the years following the biggest political rout of Republicans the world has EVER seen. It’ll be MUCH worse than post Watergate.
Have you noticed already, you don’t hear the Republicans using words like “family values” any more. The once common rhetoric and fear mongering on the House floor is all but gone already (C-Span). Heck, you can see it in your own community (south of Davis County at anyway). Chir Buttars anyone. ANYONE? I’m hearing it loud and clear in my ward.
I predict in the next phase, writers, pundits and the national conversation will begin to compare the far right of your party with the other far right extremist we have been told will be conquering Kaysville soon. Yes, I mean your friends in the ME who strap on bombs.
So you may in the end, get your religious war. But it will only be a war of words because as history does so well, this relatively short era of right wing religious nuttery (compared with say the Crusades or The Inquisition) will usher in a new era in which religion in general be shoved back to the sidelines with the other antiquated relics of our medieval past.
Will you come along and renounce your fanatical ways? Will you participate in building a better future for your girls, or surrender to the fantasy of some bygone era (that never really existed) and live out your life a bitter old fart, resentful of the very society in which your beautiful intelligent daughters go forth and thrive (but not multiply like the sands…) caught up in the optimism of what could be rather than some past that never was?
What will YOU choose?
May 18th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Make no mistake, the proliferation of books with titles such as “How the GOP Failed”, “The Steaming Pile of Elephant Shyte In the Room”, and “Thanks For Everything, GW”, is all about making everybody think that’s it’s all going to be ok, with the new leadership that’s bound to take up the reigns. This is likely an illusion, what with all the crap struen around in the last ten or so years. It’ll take a generation just to clear the stench. Sorry. Momentum must be accounted for.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Cav,
I’m thinkin a truth and reconciliation process ala South Africa.
There are an awful lot of former Bush regime players and loyalist out there in need of forgiveness.
Then there’s guys like me who have been screaming hysterically since 1999 about how STUPID Bush was and is. About how Bush was a cokehead and a drunk — A ‘ner-do-well bully who wasn’t qualified (and still isn’t) to teach 7th grade social studies.
We were called names. Told we were called vitriolic, unpatriotic nutbags and pussies. We were bullied by smug, pompous chest-thumpers.
The names alone that Orrin Hatch called us would fill a small book.
I need an apology. Let the national healing begin.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
How about we change the name to New GOP, kind of like New Coke. We don’t need a new brand, what we need is to get back to our conservative roots. The GOP must go back and actually practice what it preaches with the principles of limited government, accountability, low taxes and low spending, freedom and personal liberty.
We need to be the party of Reagan again. Unfortunately, the party of McCain will further bring the party down. The GOP will not recover till our current crop of “leadership” is thrown out of office and replaced by people with real vision.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Cliff, I do not know how the ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ process works. If it would speed up the redirection and reconstitution of our democracy, then I’m for looking more closely to such devices.
I believe prosecutions and relinquishment of ill-gotten wealth will be a requirement, perhaps going back into the poshumous, (can you say Reagan) which may be where Ken and I will differ.
As for the real values of conservation, they are best plied away from the Stupid, corrupt realm of ‘party’ politics. And while I myself have a broad streak of conservatism, I still see no need to align with the likes of the party’s hierarchy. They are criminals and SUCK bigtime. In fact that accusation goes quite a way down into the ranks as well.
Let the TRUTH begin, and reconciliation may follow, (or not).
May 18th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
May 18th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
“I need an apology. Let the national healing begin.”
OK. Here goes:
I’m sorry you’re on the wrong side on the gun issue.
I’m sorry that you’re becoming aware of this, and are experiencing denial.
I’m also sorry that you, in your desperation, are futilely trying to link the NRA and the KKK. This includes your very sorry attempt to link the NRA and racist gun control, when the facts clearly show that gun control has, since 1640, been used to disarm minorities. (BTW- you realize that you’re playing with fire here, don’t you? As soon as everyone realizes that you and yours have been lying about this one…)
Furthermore, I’m sorry that nothing you can do is going to separate me from my firearms.
Lastly, I’m sorry that you don’t have either the courage or the spine to actually try and disarm people yourself, but instead choose to let others do your dirty work for you.
There’s more, but I actually have a life. You should get one, too.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Re: Brand name Gop… Repub Sen from Virginia groused last week that, “…if we were dogfood, we’d be taken off the shelf immediately.”
May 18th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
I can’t get back in to edit so here it is:
GOP Rep. From Virginia. Likens GOP to dogfood that would be yanked off the supermarket shelf!
May 18th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
That Is GOP Rep from Virginia, Tom Davis equates GOP with tainted DOGFOOD.
Unable to polish so I’ll simply restate. Sorry.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Huckabee has so little integrity, that he was actually allowed to opine on “Meet The Press” this morning with the big boys. I haven’t taken MTP seriously for a long time now. The only people allowed on with any frequency are pundits determined to be safe for the radical right.
Speaking of apologies, I saw Charlton Heston on TV apologizing to Bill Clinton. I respected that and it made me think better of the man, but it is probably the only Republican apology in history. If anyone can come up with another, I’d like to see it. Bill Clinton apologized constantly, and they still wanted more. Republicans think that if you don’t apologize, you can’t be held accountable and look strong. History will have something to day about that, and it’s not going to be kind.
I’ve been saying it for years, and even called the white house more then once to ask for an apology and resignation. That is the only place any reconciliation or lessening of a prison sentence will occur.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Cliff, your grasp of history is as pathetic as your punditry.
The NRA has nothing to do with the KKK. Never did. Of course, if you choose to take your history from Michael Moore - what can I say.
Really, with NRA presidents like Ambrose Burnside, Ulysses S. Grant, Winfield Scott Hancock and Gen. Phillip Sheridan - of course they were a Klan faction. Their actions on the part of the Union Army in the Civil War, as President and Governors during Reconstruction and in defense of Freedmen in the Reconstruction era South were nothing but an elaborate ploy.
Darnit, Cliff, you’ve uncovered the conspiracy! Grant was really a Confederate spy!
(Note: for the humor challenged, I’m just using ridicule and irony to reinforce my position that Cliff Lyon is a dolt)
May 19th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Robert F. Williams, civil rights leader, author, and the president of the Monroe, North Carolina NAACP chapter in the 1950s and early 1960s. Also an NRA member.
I think that he must have been a secret Klansman when he wrote, “Negroes with Guns“.
The fact is, Cliff, lily white elitists like yourself have been clamouring for gun control that is often race based (”saturday night specials”, handgun control, handgun permits, concealed carry restrictions, ammunition bans). Sure, you discount your racism because you’ve given a donation to the ACLU or the United Negro College Fund or because you’ve cast a vote for Obama - but in truth, the concept of the armed black man scares the crap out of you. And thus, you’re responsible for keeping them down.
Spin that through your blood-soaked hands, Cliff.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Berger boy,
I think you missed my Saturday post about how the NRA fought to prevent allowing blacks to own guns.
Thats why Williams formed his own chapter.
btw: You callin me a recist? Takes one to know one. I wonder of you have any other particular feelings about other races.
How do you feel about Jews and Arabs?
May 19th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I don’t understand the question, Cliff.
How do I feel?
Clearly you think you have some spectacular peice of opposition research that purports to show that I’m hold prejudices against Semetic peoples. I’d love to see it. I sure hope your Google-fu is better than with the AK-47 quip.
With regards to your Saturday post, it’s completely fallacious. The NRA didn’t fight to restrict blacks from owning guns. Segregationist whites did. Please reference my post on Robert F Williams.
May 19th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Well now JD,
Southern history? Well, its been my life. In fact I just got back from Montgomery several weeks ago, where I met with some of the nation’s foremost experts on segregation and civil rights history of the South.
Never in my experience has anyone suggested that segregationists and NRA members were mutually exclusive.
Apparently, you are not aware of the early NRA.
hint: Try to avoid the propaganda from the NRA if you WANT to know the truth.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
So then, Cliff?
Who was this Robert Williams guy, then?
Who were the Deacons for Defense and Justice?
What did they have to with CORE?
When was it, exactly that Ulysses S. Grant joined the Klan?
Was Nathan Bedford Forrest a Union officer?
What was the purpose of the Early NRA?
Why was it founded?
Why are you taking history lessons from a Michael Moore cartoon? Was it “peer reviewed”, Cliff? I don’t see anything about racism and the early NRA here. Unless, maybe, you think that Josh Sugarman and the VPC are an NRA front group….
The joy of this, Cliff, is that your positions are so asinine, your arguments so inept and you facts so poorly researched that it only takes me a couple of minutes to knock them down.
I worry, that should you start restricting comments to folks who are “credentialed” you won’t have anything to talk about but your rhetorical failures.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I guess you are right JD,
There never really was any racism involved. In fact, there was no racism for real at all in the South, ESPECIALLY among white gun owners. They formed the NRA just so black folks could protect themselves from
…other black folks?
May 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Way to dodge the questions, Cliff.
Let’s try again:
Who was this Robert Williams guy, then?
Who were the Deacons for Defense and Justice?
What did they have to with CORE?
When was it, exactly that Ulysses S. Grant joined the Klan?
Was Nathan Bedford Forrest a Union officer?
What was the purpose of the Early NRA?
Why was it founded?
Read a little bit, Cliff. Then get back to me. ‘Cause right now you’re just tossing out disorganized babble.
May 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Boy oh boy Mister Berger,
You just opened a can of worms.
Turns out thats a fairly sensitive subject.
If the NRA gave a shit about their reputation as a racist group, they could start be firing Robert K. Brown,
In case you didn’t know, SoF is the white supremacist bible….but you knew that.
May 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Robert K Brown is a board member. He can’t be fired.
Second, what information do you have to support your assertion that Soldier of Fortune is the “white supremacist bible”?
Could it be with their editorial support for UNITA, the Karen rebels or the IDF?
Cliff, you are so amazingly clueless, it astounds me.
oh…and quit changing the subject, Cliff.
Answer the questions. Here they are again, because I know that you have a demonstrated problem with reading comprehension:
Who was this Robert Williams guy, then?
Who were the Deacons for Defense and Justice?
What did they have to with CORE?
When was it, exactly that Ulysses S. Grant joined the Klan?
Was Nathan Bedford Forrest a Union officer?
What was the purpose of the Early NRA?
Why was it founded?
May 19th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Looky what I found.
Ar you familiar with this NRA publication JD?
May 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Well that answer pretty much confirms your knowledge of the world.
A board member can’t be fired. I you fuckin nuts?
Look JD, here;s the deal. No sober minded person who pays attention would EVER take seriously anyones feeble attempt to demonstrate that the NRA is not a racist organization. No one!
Do you know who Morris Dees is?
May 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
How hard is it for you to answer a few questions, Cliff?
Are you completely inept?
I’m familiar with the picture. It’s a graphic novel that was never published. And even if it was, are you suggesting that there are no gangs of illegal aliens?
I’m also familiar with Morris Dees and the SPLC. Are you familiar with the Deacons for Defense and Justice? How about Robert Williams?
I’m also familiar with the NRA bylaws.
And I’m familiar with the history of the NRA, even as written by the VPC.
Your link regarding racism and the NRA pulls up a VPC screed that alludes to some members of the NRA being racists - but you are too inept to read VPCs history of the NRA? Why? Because it might burst your bubble?
You just go ahead and keep believing your fabrications, misrepresentations and lies. People who read this blog can see how desperate you’ve become, how pathetic and miniscule your opinions are. It’s sad to see someone fall so hard.
May 19th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
What are you so afraid to admit the fact of racism in this country?
btw: Yes to both your question (DDJ & Robert Williams).
I suppose now you will argue that one anecdotal event proves something. Go ahead, give us some more NRA logic designed for thin-skulled rednecks.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
What am I supposed to be arguing, Cliff?
You asserted that the NRA is racist by charter. You have yet to prove this point.
Yet, you still shift your goalposts, refuse to answer questions, and try to deflect the glaring evidence of your ineptitude.
The Deacons for Defense and Justice and Robert Williams are 2 examples of NRA supported black self-defense movements. Not one, Cliff. Bad at math, too, I see.
Though I’m sure that you’d prefer that poor black folk in the south were wholly dependent upon the largess of you and the “progressives” that you puport to represent. That sure gives you a lot of power, doesn’t it? And THAT is a racist position, Cliff. Even Al Sharpton says so…
June 26th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Here are the facts regarding the NRA - Cliff Lyon does not know what he’s talking about. There is no link between the clan and the NRA. The NRA has thousands of black members.
The Klan Act and Enforcement Act [which criminalized the KKK] were signed into law by President Ulysess S. Grant, who used their provisions vigorously and aslo the first.
Grant’s vigor in disrupting the Klan earned him unpopularity among many whites, yet after Grant left the White House, the NRA elected him as its eighth president.
After Grant’s term, the NRA elected General Philip Sheridan, who had removed the governors of Texas and Lousiana for failure to suppress the KKK.
The NRA was founded by former Union officers, and eight of its first ten presidents were Union veterans.
During the 1950s and 1960s, groups of blacks organized as NRA chapters in order to obtain surplus military rifles to fight off Klansmen.