Round up the usual suspects… all eight million of them!
Via Radar:
According to a senior government official who served with high-level security clearances in five administrations, “There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived ‘enemies of the state’ almost instantaneously.” He and other sources tell Radar that the database is sometimes referred to by the code name Main Core. One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention.
For our gun-owning friends: just because you are paranoid, it doesn’t mean they are not out to get you too.
Think Progress has a summary of the article.
Oh, and let’s not forget about NSPD-51. That’s a document signed by President Bush that grants him unlimited extra-Constitutional powers for an indefinite period of time in the event of a “national emergency” (as defined by Bush). No members of Congress are even allowed to read the classified annexes in NSPD-51.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
this is why I own a gun. I’m in no way scared of my fellow citizens; the governent is the worry. And I believe this worry is the reason for the 2nd amendment.
In the words of the Clash:
When they knock on your door
how’re you going to come
with your hand on your head
or the trigger of your gun?
May 21st, 2008 at 1:41 am
Something tells me Sean Penn is on the list. He must be since, Hannity has featured him as an “enemy of the state” of the week on “Hannity’s America” (patriotic music playing in background)! However, the little coward renamed the segment “enemy of the week” as shown in the above link.
Sean Penn must be very, very proud! I know I would be.
This must somehow be Clinton’s fault. Right gun people? I mean, after all, Gonzales was Clinton’s friend and lawyer…
Wait a minute, I think I MAY be wrong about that last statement…
All sarcasm aside. We all know who ordered this damned database. The gun people will never admit it though, because that would involve owning up to the fact that they helped put these fascist pricks in power so Al Gore wouldn’t take their guns away.
A sad legacy indeed!
May 21st, 2008 at 6:34 am
Cheney will protect us.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:59 am
Thinking about this some more especially with the oft repeated matra of the military being off in Iraq “fighting for our freedoms.” I can’t think of anything in Iraq truelly harming my freedom but this list certainly does. It makes me wonder if for the military to protect my freedom the should stage a coup.
It was Tom Jefferson who said, “Every generation needs a new revolution.”
But here’s better quote from Pres. #3, “The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed.” — Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548
May 21st, 2008 at 10:06 am
To All,
Does anyone really think this list will go away regardless of who is in office; Democrat or Republican?
May 21st, 2008 at 11:40 am
Yes Bob, I think it’s a good possibility the list would even be published. It was a
democrat who signed FOIA into law. Republicans would never expose the list even if hell froze over.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:42 am
The list pre-dates the Bush administration, although it seems they expanded it with what they got from the NSA warrantless surveillance. Making it go away won’t be an easy job.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Richard,
That was my point, thanks.
Too many times we forget about the basics and get involved in petty spats over who is the bigger/biggest offender.
It really doesn’t matter too much which side wins the election, both will continue to erode the rights and responsibilities of the American citizen. Each side just wants to chip away at different rights and responsibilities first.
Please note that I also think we focus too often on just our rights; forgetting the government is also trying to take over responsibilities it shouldn’t have. Feeding the poor and hungry, shouldn’t that be done on a local community, church and individual level. Education- what business does Washington D.C. have telling us what we should be teaching our children, isn’t that our job at the state and local level?
I hate to say it, but I probably won’t be voting for a candidate this election but against the one that is most likely to take away my rights and responsibilities.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Bob S,
Then you should vote for the candidate that will increase education.
Freedom is not granted by the government, it is lost by the people.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Wait a minute?!
Are you saying that if a nuke goes off in Chicago, that the government might start QUESTIONING people?!
Oh Noes!!!
May 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Cliff, people might mistake you for a conservative with lines like that. Next thing you know you will be saying that rights are not bestowed by government but are naturally inherent to humankind.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Cliff,
I agree and disagree with you about the education. I think that education is one of the strongest factors but I can’t vote for a candidate that wants to dictate what and how a child should learn.
Personally, I think we should abolish public schools completely and have a simple competency and knowledge test requirement. Let the people educate their own children, group together in co-ops or private schools of their choice.
New schools would step in to fill the void by removing public schools, the competition would insure improvement, and the national testing would provide the benchmark.
Do you have any kids of your own or nieces and nephews in school currently? It’s absolutely appalling what is being taught or actually how little is being taught. Too much junk science and self esteem inflating courses instead of the basics; science, math, literature, etc.
But until we start voting for candidates that are going to help us reclaim our responsibilities and rights, we get what we deserve.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Catholic School, Baby!
5th graders learning about Martin Luther. Who’dathunkit? It’s pretty awesome.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Bob S.
I agree that all schools should be private entities however I do think public funding for education is a good thing. Educating children, while being the responsibility of parents, benefits everyone not just the parents and the child. An educated population is essential for any advanced civilization and a lack of education is a primary factor in all failed societies.
Even with public funding and available public schools there are places in this country, particularly in urban areas, where the majority never graduate from high school. This has caused high crime rates, high unemployment and an underclass that will never emerge out of poverty. These problem areas are a microcosm of what would happen on a far greater scale if the cost of education was left entirely to parents. Any savings the government might realize by not funding education would be dwarfed by many factors in the cost of welfare, law enforcement, and prisons, as well as the cost to our economy without the benefit of a large educated workforce.
That being said I still think that the actual implementation of education would be better served if schools were operated in the private sector. There are few things that government runs better than the private sector and when you compare public school outcomes vs the results of private schools you can easily see that everyone being educated in a private school would be highly superior to our present system.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I’m obviously clinging to the hope that Obama will do the right thing, and turn out to be better then Clinton was at opposing dragnet types of criminal prosecution that turn non-violent citizens into criminals.
I don’t care what anybody says, Democrats, including Clinton have been much less secretive then modern day republicans. Nothing, but nothing gets out of THIS White House and everybody knows it. Utah, which has been run by Republicans since 1978 is a model of secret government that even makes Washington look transparent.
When Democrats had all three branches of Government, we didn’t have these types of problems. Am I totally deluded, or was anybody more worried about being on a list before Bush proclaimed “you’re with us, or against us?” Let’s be honest here.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
As American public school children aspire to the dizzying heights of 30th @#$%^&* place in international competency testing, parents will naturally seek to educate their offspring in systems that will do better.
The public trust in education is lost, doesn’t mean it couldn’t be reclaimed, but never will be if all that children get is agenda based political instruction. I would be happy if most kids could answer the phone in a coherent manner, or simply make correct change.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Don’t we have any “Casablanca” fans here? I’m old enough to remember when it was everyone’s favorite movie.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Since Bob S has been so generous as to attempt to connect the curious with a Shooting experience, it has come to my attention that Drinking Liberally has begun a shooting enterprize for the Liberal (and it is not shots of tequila). So perhaps there’s more common ground than has been apprehended.
For Cliff, the difference is that liberals sight down the peice with thier left eye. That’s me all over again.
For Bob S. Next round is on US. Good on ya all.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Ken,
You make some points about the need for public funding of schools, but what is public funding but your tax dollars and mine. Perhaps following the college model would provide a revenue source, those without children or school age children could donate to a particular school. Make it tax deductible.
Another way would be to have no taxes on schools and the supplies they purchase, reducing the burden on the schools.
My concern is that once you take the feds money they want to call the shots. That’s how we have mandatory speed limits, etc. Let’s put the government genie back in the bottle; limiting it to the items listed in the Constitution.
Where I disagree is with the cause and effect; poverty, crime and unemployment wasn’t cause by lack of education. The culture of dependence, welfare and lack of responsibility cause people not to care about their education or employment.
Is a high school diploma really the minimum job requirement? Not really, the ability to read, write and think logically is the minimum. Most of those skills could and should be mastered by elementary school. The trend appears to be warehousing kids for longer and longer to keep them out of the job market instead of equipping them with the skills needed to enter it.
I’m not saying don’t require school, but don’t require that kids go to the government sponsored day care centers that are current schools. Many children are stifled by public schools more than they are helped. Should talented and gifted kids be required to attend for 12 years if they could complete it in 8? Or how about the mechanically gifted, what opportunity do they truly have to use their talents instead of sitting through 12 years of English that could be taught in 5.
The flip side is what I talked about earlier; responsibility. Simple put we need to stop letting people not suffer the consequence of their decisions. Welfare should be a limited assistance for a very short term, not a lifestyle. How did people survive before welfare or social security payments? Quite well, actually. Let’s get back to individual responsibility, families–what a concept there.
There are many ways of doing this, but very few of them work well with the federal government’s involvement.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Bob S.
I do see what you are saying, its like so many people in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Many were so conditioned to rely solely on the government that they sat around for days waiting and waiting while others took care of themselves.
Some of those inner city schools I mentioned have some of the highest expenditures per student and have the highest dropout rates. Parenting is the key, that is the reason Utah can spend less with higher results because we have high parental involvement.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
That’s right, Ken … high parental involvement in the indoctrination and general dumbing down of the youngsters of Utah. Most other kids from states other than Utah do just as well as those in Utah without such high parental involvement. Get over your self!!
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:11 am
Ken– you’re still blaming the Hurricane Katrina victims? If your house was underwater and you had no money and no means of transportation, what would you do? Destruction of a major American city is clearly a federal emergency. Let’s hope we don’t lose any more cities while Bush is still in the White House.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
I have a feeling I’m on the list — since our neo-con government has such a fear of peace activists.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 am
Sure you are, Jenni. Because the Peace Movement has been SOOOO effective, hasn’t it?
Let’s see, they … wait… unh.. had some very pretty marches with lots of people dressed in fun costumes carrying important looking signs. And then everyone stopped at Starbucks for a no fat latte on the way home so they could see themselves on TV.
On the bright side, as soon as Democrats took power (using those dastardly electronic voting machines - no doubt), they promptly threw Cindy Sheehan under the bus.
Way to inflate your self importance.
*yawn*
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
jdberger:
And all this time of reading your posts, I enjoyed the fact that you exhibit a modicum of respect toward your liberal fellow posters. What happened re Jenni? Is it because she is a “she” that you lost your ability to maintain respect? Easy prey, sort of say?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:32 am
Richard,
Nobody is blaming the victims, but how the victims responded. Can you deny there were folks that did not take responsibility for their own safety and health?
How many didn’t evacuate before the hurricane hit? This wasn’t a surprise that popped up, but too many people waited for the government to walk them out of their houses and into another one.
This is best typified by the people still dependent on the government for housing TWO - 2 years after Katrina. There are folks who never used government housing, some used it temporarily and some still in it. What’s the difference but the dependency and lack of responsibility in the people?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
Oh yeah, lots of people be on the list Jenni. Good thing the 2nd stands by at all times. We will be there when you need it, unlike some other entities before here mentioned.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Sorry, Albert, but I’m a little bored by the martyr complex so prevalent among the peaceniks and conspiracy theorists. “The government is out to get us - I’m sure that they are gonna throw us camps” etc.
Despite all the claims of oppression and censorship sites like this which are critical of the current administration thrive.
To be fair, the conspiracy theorists, Loose Change wierdos and Ron Paulestines bore me too.
Gender is inconsequential.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
jdberger:
Then are you just admitting straight out to being disrespectful of others’ views?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Albert,
From Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary.
Satire
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
I thought it was nothing more than an attempt to point out the inanity of claiming to be on a list because of peace activities only.
As JD pointed out, what have the peace activists done but hold a few marches and rallies where people wear silly clothes?
That’s not being disrespectful of their views, but only their effectiveness. I’m just upset I didn’t get to say it first.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Bob S.:
Way to inflate your self importance. *yawn*
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Albert,
I’m cut to the quick with your wit.
Seriously, why not address the issue that JD wasn’t disrespecting her views. Or maybe only certain people are allowed to make fun of others
Should I go on or is it okay to for everyone to use humor to make a point?
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Bob S and jdberger should get together and have wild gun/sex fantasies. Come on guys, you know you want to.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Albert, Jenni’s lament about being on the “list” because she’s a “peace activist” (whatever that means) reminded me of this joke.
Note, it’s pretty ribald - so if you are easily offended, you might want to pass:
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Jenkem, Larry…put it down. It’s making you hallucinate again.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Come on jd, you know you love those beautiful Ted Nugent abbs! It’s not good to hold it in. Happiness is a warm gun, mama!
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
In the U.S. Miilitary one of the key lessons is the distinction between ‘My weapon’ and ‘My gun’. They don’t want you pulling out your penis during a fire-fight…or vis-a-versa.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Larry, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, here?
Are trying to insult me by insinuating that I’m gay? What if I am? What does it have to do with the conversation?
Do you think that the opinion of someone who is homosexual is worthy of ridicule?
Are you implying that homosexuality is bad or are you suggesting that homosexuality is worthy of ridicule?
A very interesting position to take on a “progressive” blog, Larry.
Are you afraid of gay people, Larry?
Did it occur to your jenkem addled mind, Larry, that I might be a woman?
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 pm
If you followed the post-Katrina story, you would know that many people still have no option to rebuild because they were wiped out financially. Half the pre-storm population of New Orleans hasn’t returned. Delays caused by insurance companies and government entities have forced residents to rely on high-cost loans. Foreclosure rates have skyrocketed to twice the national average.
You call it “lack of responsibility.” I call it lack of money.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Richard,
Thank you, you just proved my point. Some haven’t rebuilt, but it isn’t because of lack of money. There is plenty of money out there, loans, grants, churches, charities.
There are many people who took that money and rebuilt their lives. It may be in other cities, states or even in New Orleans. It’s not about the money, it is about the dependency.
That dependency is part of the lack spirit and responsibility that is so prevalent in the culture of New Orleans. It is my personal responsibility to manage my money, it really is not about what you make, but what you keep.
How many “poor” people have cable or satellite, internet access, smoke, or overweight? That is a real indicator of where their priorities are, don’t you think?
I have followed the post Katrina story, both in New Orleans and in Mississippi. Why don’t you hear the same number of people complaining that they can’t make it in Mississippi? Because they don’t have the same level of dependency shown in New Orleans.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:17 am
jd:
Take it easy, I was just trying to see if I could get your goat and thought that Bob rushing in to defend you, calling your post satire was funny. It wasn’t satire. You were making fun of peace activists.
I thought your comment to Jenny was out of line. In fact, it is well known that the most powerful people in this country are TERRIFIED of professional activists. Jenni could indeed be on the list. I wouldn’t put it past this cowardly administration planning to infiltrate every group that has opposed them. Eight million is a lot of people.
You are right that my joke was in bad taste though and could have been taken to be insulting to gay people.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:47 am
Bob S. — The Mississippi Gulf Coast communities like Waveland and Bay St. Louis are worse off than New Orleans. Most former residents can’t afford to come back. Insurance companies didn’t pay enough to enable them to rebuild. Construction costs have gone up. Result: ghost towns.
Note that Mississippi has a governor with high-level Republican connections, Haley Barbour. Even he can’t get help for his people.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:55 am
Richard,
I’m not trying to be crude, but when the devil did it become the government’s responsibility to make sure people can rebuild their homes?
It isn’t, insurance companies paid out what they were contracted to pay out. If they didn’t meet the contract, that’s fraud and a civil lawsuit or criminal case.
Who was responsible for making sure people had enough insurance on their homes but those people? Poor people can still afford insurance, it’s a matter of priority. Lord knows I pay enough for insurance for my home, I made sure it covers the replacement or rebuilding costs. I like many people, have made savings a priority. Isn’t that the responsible thing to do?
Over and over again, we hear the cry of “the government isn’t doing enough” when the truth of the situation is the government isn’t doing enough to keep people from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Is that the job of the government?
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 am
Bob, I think ‘the gov’t isn’t doing enough’ is related to slice of dough it takes from our earnings and the misplaced priorities that it seems to have when actually spending same. Then there’s the deficit, but don’t get me started.There is a reasonable expectation on the part of the citizenry that our gov’t at least be rational, and not the purchace of large corporations.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:39 am
[...] also learned in May that our government has another list of eight million Americans who they consider “potentially [...]