A Million Terrorists, and Counting
As predicted last February, the U.S. government terrorist watch list has passed the one million mark.
Barry Steinhardt point out the absurdity on HuffPo:
There cannot possibly be one million terrorists poised to attack us. If there were our cities would be ablaze. The president - if not this president, then the next one — needs to order the Terrorist Screening Center (the entity that maintains the list) to take everyone off this list except those for whom there is credible evidence of terrorist activities or ties. And they should be ordered to do it quickly — within three months.
There’s just no excuse for a terrorist watch list with one million names on it. And the million names dramatically understates the number of Americans actually affected by this hopelessly bloated folly. With common names like Robert Johnson on the list, exponentially more Americans are caught up in a Kafkaesque web of suspicion.
We also learned in May that our government has another list of eight million Americans who they consider “potentially suspect.”
Paging Franz Kafka…
UPDATE: Former Assistant Attorney General Jim Robinson is on the terrorist watch list, despite having his own government top-secret security clearances renewed last year. “I suppose if I were convinced that America is a safer place because I get hassled at the airport, I might put up with it,” Robinson said. “But I doubt it.”
July 15th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Why only a million? Why only eight million? There must be an optimal number. See
http://www.aci.net/KALLISTE/optimal.htm
July 15th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Richard,
Chalk this up to point we agree on; let’s do away with this list. It serves no practical purpose when it stops infants and pre-schoolers from flying, when there is so much confusion.
I really dread the next time I have to fly since I have a very common name.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:52 am
If they really trust these lists, wouldn’t it be prudent to post the names and pictures of these terrorists on the internet like they do with the sex predators. Don’t we have the right to know, let alone the duty to watch these dangerous people like hawks? With that many out there, there’s a very good chance you’re living next door to one.
Why isn’t Chris Hanson setting up sting operations on these guys so our children don’t get blown to kingdom come!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Because you misinterpret what the lists are for and how they work, Larry. But that’s par for the course, isn’t it?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Pray tell jd. What are the lists for and how DO they work, or is that a national security secret, like every f-ing thing this administration does? And how the hell would YOU know how they work?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Common sense, Larry.
Like all the other lists the Government keeps - it’s meant as a guideline. It’s also not supposed to be 100% accurate.
And yes, it is a National Security Secret. Of course it is. Why wouldn’t it be? So the bad guys could figure out how to defeat it?
Just for fun, do a little research and see if you can find the US Customs criteria for likely drug smugglers. It’s pretty funny because in classic bureaucratic fashion it manages to include everyone.
I was once stopped near a border by police who later explained that my passengers and I fit a drug courier profile - 4 well dressed people in an expensive car. What can you do?
Bob S. and I would argue that you decrease the size of government. Less bureaucrats, less opporunity for them to dream up stuff like this.
So, here’s the question for you, Larry.
Does your complaint about the list have to do with the fact that it exists or that it has so many people on it (assuming that all the entries are for unique individuals and not permutations of names/identities)?
It would also be nice to clarify whether the list is made up solely of American citizens. One million out of 300 million is a lot. One million out of 6.6 billion, not so much.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
jd wrote:
I would politely point out that there was no probable cause to stop you, unless they could identify a traffic or safety violation, or some evidence of criminal activity.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Richard, you can point out whatever you want, but I’ve found it more useful and prudent to argue civil rights in front of a prosecuting attorney or a judge than in front of a nervous kid with a shotgun.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
After 911 I traveled with my son, then an infant, diapers, the whole bit. TSA wanted to wand his body, something my then wife would not allow. We were threatened with being barred from the plane. She insisted, and then made way with the removal of his diaper….
I was soooo hoping that pantload was up to the performance at that moment.
Sadly it didn’t happen. Richard do you imagine that then we had any “rights”. I can still see his naked butt, the virgin diaper, the idiots from TSA. My crazy wife standing between me, the baby in my arms, the goon with “wand” trying to test his bare bottom for evidence of explosives.
Meanwhile I had to check my carry on because I had jars of homemade maple syrup from a Vermont friend. The TSA moron didn’t speak Emglish, nor through any form of sign language could I make him understand, that the viscous brown liquid in the jar, was a breakfast condiment. All that, and La Guardia too.
Fond memories.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
jd’s question to me:
Actually, jd, I’m concerned that I may be on the list. I was featured in a story at “The Raw Story” a few days ago. I don’t think Bush is very fond of sites like that, this, or “the internets” in general for that matter. Not to mention the fact the Al Gore and Ted Kennedy have to take their shoes off to get on a plane.
On the other hand since the government has all of our information and knows who you are, even though you use a fake name here, you and Bob S will be able to point to this site and get preferential treatment and maybe even a guard position when the camps open up and those are the only jobs available.
Thanks for defending freedom, Bush style! Stay comfortable!
July 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
I’ve been worried I’ve been on a list since I signed Ad Asner’s “Not In Our Name” petition a million years ago and so are a couple of people I talked into signing it. But then, these are the days of our lives.
July 17th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Yeah, whatever. You’re on the list, Larry. So am I and so is Bob. Bob and I are gun enthusiasts who speak publicly of the “Insurrection Theory” of the Second Amendment. Trust me, we’re on a list.
NRA members are on a list.
ACLU members are on a list.
blah blah blah….
And you, Larry are on a list…the question isn’t whether you’re on a list - but what your ranking is. Hop on a plane. If they detain you, then they think you’re dangerous. I’m doubting that will happen unless you were previously involved in some overt, physical anti-government activities (riot, arson, bombing, etc.). Trust me, if they are letting George Clooney and Michael Moore fly on airplanes, they’re not going to bother you. Besides, if they were really worried about you, you would have recieved a “personal visit” already.
July 17th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
How would I know whether I ever received a “personal visit” or not jd. Haven’t you heard of “sneek and peek?”
Either help us get rid of these fascists, or stay comfortable like you are now!
July 17th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Larry,
If you read what JD wrote, you would see that he’s not discounting anything you have to say, but the conclusion you drew in wanting to see the list.
It’s not like a list of known and convicted sex offenders, but of potential terrorists. While I personally think it does not serve any effective purpose; publicizing would definitely have a negative impact. We let someone know they are suspected, terrorists would simply shift plans.
Be very clear, I think the list is worthless but your idea was just as bad.
Maybe if folks would focus on regaining all of our rights, and stop focusing on the democrat/republican divide, we might have progress. We simply have to put aside the animosity, name calling and childish behavior to focus on the issues.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
“Dangerous terrorists” who had problems trying to fly commercial because they were on the watch list:
Senator Ted Kennedy
Rep. Don Young, (R-AK)
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-CA)
James Moore (author of Bush’s Brain)
Catherine (”Cat”) Stevens, wife of Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK)
Major General Vernon Lewis (Ret.)
Oh, and Saddam Hussein is still on the list. Good thing Senator Obama charters his own plane.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Sorry Bob, but condemning the republicans who purposefully caused the democrat/republican divide rather then defending them as you and jd do is the only place to start. Newt is at the top of the list, but so is Bush, who famously said, “either you’re with us or against us”
Making sense?
July 17th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Ha! What is so hilarious about this statement is that it is coming from a right-winger!
July 17th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
And that the retort comes from someone with BDS!
July 17th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Folks,
You still don’t get it, I’m far from a right-winger except for in your imaginations. When I “defend” Bush or the republicans, it’s to point out that there are usually more bad guys then what you are naming.
Your replies are perfect examples of what I’m talking about. Is there any sign of “hey that makes sense”? Any signs of “let’s stop alienating people that could help us”?
Nope, more name calling and mud-slinging. Wow, what a way to defend our rights. Guess you are standing up for the 1st amendment rights eh?
Read, and try to actually comprehend, what folks like JD and I have written. It is about us versus them, but the “them” are the politicians, all the politicians that are trying to take away our rights.
I’ve said it before; each “side” is trying to take away our rights-they just focus on different ones to get rid of first.
July 17th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Amen, Brother!
Unless you’re Cliff and the concept of “amen” bothers you, then I’d say, “Well done, old boyo, what?” with the correct Connecticut accent….
July 17th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“Bob and I are gun enthusiasts who speak publicly of the “Insurrection Theory” of the Second Amendment. Trust me, we’re on a list”.
As were Sam Adams, and moneybags John Hancock, and many other rabble rousers. You share good company, and such a declaration is a badge of honor.
Of course, many of the more tempered Patriots talked themselves blue in the face in compromise and were summarily ignored.
Remember, it was the condition of the Irish people that made Ben Franklin give the more “motivated” and armed elements of insurrection the green light. As much as by accident he in being delayed on purpose by the Lord Hillsborough, the Lord he was meant to discuss the “troubles” in the colonies with.
During this intentional delay, meant to belittle Franklin, he took unsupervised tours of the countryside and happened upon the conditions of the subjugated Irish, who had recently defied the crown.
Children naked, men broken, women holding firm with hollow eyes, staring from the holes in the ground they had been forced to adopt after being driven off their lands so English aristocracy could have their, “holdings”. Franklin could see what would become of Americans, and decided to go for broke.
Guns, guns, guns. No freedom without them. 1 2 3throught10=Freedom. This blog would likely never exist without them. People are the same now as ever. Then there was as much apathy, ass kissing, and money grubbing as now. There is nothing new under the Sun, except history you don’t know.
That we a subjugated in the name of security, is as it was in 1775. Terror was on the march then, just so happened that the terrorists were the Founders of our Country. Amazing stuff…, more amazing is the Veil of Forgetfulness displayed by a rather spoiled people. As it was then, it will be now, a minority provides the backbone to keep a free Nation and People.
What else is new?
July 17th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Bob and jd:
You both raise good points - just not all the time!
July 18th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Eeeek!
Isn’t that one of the Four Horseman? Albert gives a backhanded compliment to Bob and jd?
“The end is nigh!”
Or for anti-religious Cliff, “Game over, dude!”