Paul Mero…And Speaking of Tools
Planned Parenthood is perhaps the most despicable cause on Earth, in my admittedly jaded opinion. If you champion PP, then follow this link:
http://www.takecaredownthere.org/#/watch…
If, after viewing the messages, you still champion PP, I would LOVE to hear why?
August 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I followed the link and it said, “Oopsy doopsy… your Flash player needs upgrading.” Honest to God. Ooopsy doopsy.
August 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Paul:
Aside from providing directions to a website, can you back up your assertion that “PP is perhaps the most despicable cause on Earth”? You may want to clarify the statement, too, as PP is an organization, not a cause.
August 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Sorry, I am still so very new at this posting thing.
Try this link…same difference…
http://www.takecaredownthere.org/
August 1st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Albert…I said in “my opinion.” As a Latter-day Saint, I think everything that PP stands for, including all of the “responsibility” clap-trap they feign in plain site of all of the “let’s just make it safe for kids to have sex” worldview, is antithetical to what I, as a Latter-day Saint, understand about life’s purposes. Again, my opinion.
On a secular level, if you support killing babies and facilitating sex outside of marriage, then you’d love PP.
And anyone who knows PP, knows that it’s a cause (just like Sutherland…of course, except opposite).
BTW, I love how you guys never answer a challenge…only respond with your own questions…as if your question is your answer. :)
August 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Not a cause? This is from the same web site:
http://www.letsbuildcampaign.org/
Sounds like a cause to me.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Paul, you seem to have some really big issues with women. Did you have an abusive mom?
August 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Paul:
Once again you present a perfectly circular argument - you assume what you might otherwise set out to prove. Let’s just focus on one issue, for example - your statement equating abortion with killing babies. There is great ongoing debate re whether a fetus is a baby, and particularly whether a first-trimester fetus is a baby. Rather than address that issue, you ignore it and merely assume what you set out to prove. (Minus two 1Utah blog-points for you!) Indeed, you are just stirring the pot and trolling for the response you got. Congratulations!!
On another point, what about the educational aspects that PP sets out to provide? While your own quiver of rascals may have abstinence pounded into their skulls lest they be visited by the Holy wrath of the Creator, not all children are so
brainwashedfortunate. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I am grateful that the less fortunate among us have a resource for information about options available to them.And as to your comment re facilitating sex outside of marriage, I can only say: “Earth to Paul, it’s time to wake up from your deep sleep!!”
August 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
As for morality, I found this video to be extremely moral:
http://www.takecaredownthere.org/#/watch/let-me-do-me
It’s all about the self-love . . .or is that bad in your world, too?
August 1st, 2008 at 2:41 pm
…support killing babies? Gotta like war a lot! War a lot.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Planned Parenthood is in the business of preventing pregnancies, so I’m not sure I understand your reference to “killing babies”. The more pregnancies that are prevented, the fewer abortions may be needed.
By the way, they also facilitate sex for those of us who are married. Not every women wants to produce a dozen children.
August 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Paul! Help!
You are confusing me. When did PP start killing babies? And how is that “secular?”
Seriously. We are mostly college grads here (notwithstanding Bob S, went to a Christian college in Dallas)
This is MY BLOG and I AND I ALONE may use shameless hyperbole.
But since you were honest enough to preface your hyperbole as secular, I will address the secular problem with your statement.
The idea that potential life IS life is unfounded in any Judeo-Christian doctrine. It is rather a modern canard invented around the turn of the century by an unholy alliance of child molesting catholic clergy and politicians and seized upon by every two-bit revivalist religion with a political agenda.
There is NO WAY, aborting a four cell zygote is any more immoral chewing on your fingernails.
August 1st, 2008 at 3:43 pm
The decades old abortion debate isn’t a cause, it’s a strategy. It kills two birds with one stone and allow the right wing pop culture to take away mens and womens right to freedom of choice in all areas of life, not just abortion. It also allows them to call opponents “baby killers.”
The birth control we want would only destroy tiny, invisible goo. It’s the right wing pop culture that promotes war and kills real, living, breathing, and crying babies.
Sorry I made this discussion less cute, but freedom is running out of time!
August 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Paul,
It’s unclear to me whether you don’t like people talking frankly about sex or whether you just don’t like condoms. In a celestial world (mine, not yours) where everyone knew everything about sex and no one was hung up about it, PP would be unnecessary. So, perhaps, given our divine powers, would condoms. Until we all reach that blessed state/place, PP is an unfortunate necessity, principally because those who pose as adults in our society are still in a state of arrested sexual development and incapable of educating their kids, or, worse, determined that their kids will not become educated.
I recall the hilarious (and tragic) story that Nicholas Gage (Eleni) tells about his mother on her wedding night. She runs out of the bedroom and screams to her mother that this man is trying to attack her with his intestine. She doesn’t have the faintest idea what sex is or how it works, even on her wedding night. At some point, we are all like that. No one is born knowing how a condom or a penis (as joy prong) works. So, Paul, unless you’re comfortable talking to your kids in the same explicit detail as PP does in its videos, just be glad there’s some place kids can go to find out how the damn things (condoms, penises, and pussies) work.
And don’t suppose that keeping that information from them will prevent them from having sex. Let me remind you that in spite of all of the indoctrination they receive from the moment they’re conscious, half of all BYU students still report having sex before marriage (well and frequently before marriage from what I’ve seen). The 50% who haven’t had sex, have at least enjoyed solo warmups. The real question is whether they’ll have informed sex and guiltless warmups.
My own introduction if not to sex then at least to Mormon reality when it comes to sex came at a Youth Conference that I attended as a teenager. For you non-Mormons, this is typically a weekend event designed to promote religiosity among LDS teens. This particular conference was held up Provo Canyon, where I have since come to suspect at least half of LDS Provo is conceived. During a break in our activities, a couple friends and I took a walk into the woods nearby and came upon a pair of my fellow conference attendees in the middle of some seriously faith-promoting sex. They were so hard at it (excuse the pun), they didn’t even notice us. One of my friends, less discrete than I, stood above them on an embankment and got what may have been his first real insight into what Eden was like (would that all Scripture study was as interesting). Most of what I learned about sex I got in similar settings. Scout camp in particular (another of the church’s unintended sex education forums) was highly instructive in this regard, no thanks to the adults. Kids teach each other what we are too embarrassed to teach them, and PP’s videos strike me as nothing more than the Internet version of of a good Youth Conference.
On the decidedly less entertaining subject of abortion, let me suggest that you take a look at the short little piece I did years ago for Sunstone https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/085…), that heathenish publication without which the LDS church would have an even higher drop-out rate than it does. It strikes me, incidentally, that Sunstone is a kind of PP for the Mormon soul that tries to tell truth and invite honest discussion. Without it, we’d never know that there is an alternative to eternal spiritual masturbation. In any event, there is a middle ground on this subject where right and left could conceivably come together.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Paul - I can see, from what I know about your perspective, why you find the set of videos troubling. However, from my perspective as a sexuality educator they are exactly right - they address the concerns of adolescents in light hearted ways. Yes, they’re cheesy but that’s a good way to reach adolescents when you talk about sex - it shows that you don’t take yourself too seriously - which is crucial when dealing with young people.
However, as far as the messages go? They are exactly the right kind of messages - addressing matters of sexuality that concern teens. Teens want to know things like: How do I know if I have an STI? What does HPV stand for? Is oral sex “real sex”? How do you ask someone out and how do you communicate accurately? How do you talk about contraception? How do you actually use a condom? As uneasy as such topics make adults - because we want young people to be sexually and emotionally healthy - adolescents and young adults NEED the information. Not telling them, or giving them slanted information, damages adults’ credibility and leaves teens unprepared to deal with real life issues they will face.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - abstinence only programs address adult fears about adolescent sexuality, not the needs of adolescents for accurate, complete information. The accusation that PP (and comprehensive sexuality education in general) “promotes” sex outside of/before marriage is a baseless charge. They don’t condemn it, that’s not the same thing as promoting. And given last year’s report showing that 95% of Americans report engaging in premarital sex, it seems to me that addressing their needs is more important than moralizing about their actions. As far as teenage sexuality, between 2/3 to 3/4 of teens reporting engaging in in sexual intercourse. Since we also know from a variety of research reports that abstinence only programs don’t actually have positive effects on teenage sexual behavior, we as adults have a responsibility to provide teens the information they need to make responsible choices about contraception and disease prevention.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:10 pm
What I find amazing is how the group’s sense of morality is so narrow in focus. Because your god does not exist, your morality is solely physical. But even IT doesn’t make any sense. But I digress.
Your morality lacks humanity…or at least its fullness. Your heaven is simply preventing the problems of mortality…find a cure…regulate an activity…”just don’t fight, certainly don’t kill anyone.” You just want to repeal the “fall of man.” That’s your god. And so, in what I can only describe as one of the great perverions of morality, you guys think that preventing life is the noblest of deeds.
Your morality lacks emotion (cynicism, self-hatred, and misanthropy are not emotions). It certainly lacks spirituality (even if you have made selfishness a religion).
You guys are so self-righteous in your unrighteousness that you can’t tell the difference between taking a life needlessly and taking a life to save a life. You protest wars and then celebrate PP (i.e. preventing life).
What is most sad that I see in your comments…the whole string of them past, these, and those, no doubt, to come…is how you rejoice in the misery of other people. You are nearly orgasmic when human beings fail to live up to an ideal. You can’t wait for a Jimmy Swaggert to be revealed in all of his glorious hypocrisy. I suppose you would feel the same way about me.
What kind of morality is that? I’ll tell you. Self-righteousness…except in that very pathetic sort of way…like a Gollum character. Your morality chases things that only make your souls more pathetic. You deride everything “holy” just because you gave that up long ago…but it still haunts you.
So you see the largest abortion provider on the planet, PP, as a savior…the very cause that will right so many wrongs: prevent life. When are people EVER the solution for you guys? Oh yeah, when they can mock, deride, demean, other people who dare to suggest that there is something “right” in this world and are trying to live up to that ideal. Those sorts of misanthrops are useful.
Albert…human biology is complex, admittedly. Human morality is not. Moral humans celebrate and protect life…in the womb or out of it…and, btw, that means wars can be okay because a moral people fight to saves lives.
Jenni…PP is in the business of preventing life. That’s your team. That’s the cause you are choosing to defend.
Larry…preventing life is a cause, not a strategy. Call it what you will. Freedom of choice? Are you kidding me? Vaccuming the brains out of a fetus is your freedom of choice…really? Or is your freedom of choice just freedom from the consequences of choice (again, you would love to repeal the “fall of man”…and I put that term in quotes out of some unjustifiable respect I still have for you secularists).
Ed…you are the persona of what I am talking about (congrats, I know you wear that label with distinction). Because you seem to have lost the joy in life, you relish the misery and failures of others. I am no stranger to swearing, but you, my friend, do it to insult life itself. Either you aren’t smart enough, or no longer willing, to recognize that civil society (those bourgeois institutions of middle-class values you so love to hate) sets social mores for us for our benefit (like don’t screw the family goat, Ed, you’ll be a better human being for not doing that…and your daughter will be better off, in all human ways, by expressing her sexuality exclusively in the bonds of marriage…oh yeah, I forgot I have to add in this blog, heterosexual marriage.) Seriously, life is hard enough to overcome (i.e. find joy in) without misanthrops like you creating a secular religion, political philosophy, and its own politics out of sour-grapes. Russell Kirk once wrote about libertarians that we humans are selfish enough on our own without creating a philosophy in support of it. And that’s your legacy Ed…life is a bowl full of crap and you own a franchise of it and peddle it to whomever will listen. It is fantasy that you think your world and my world can come together (especially through the sterile intellectualism of some bird-cage liner like Sunstone)…the irony is that my world tolerates misanthrops like you, while your world would outlaw my kind.
Oh, Ed, you are right about one thing…Sunstone is the PP of the Church…the latter prevents life, the former prevents thought.
And Glen…you should do PR for PP. Here is the problem with the PP propaganda: in all of its SEICUS-science bs, the only clear correlation of cause and effect is found in abstinence…no babies, no diseases. Here is how warped the PP (and I suppose your) thinking is on this…you actually blame promiscuity on abstinence. In your weird sense of logic, teaching someone to not stick their hand in fire is tantamount to burning them. (Knock, knock, knock) Hello? Is any thinking person at home? The PP worldview not only puts youth at risk for everything they say they are trying to prevent…it is unintelligent. But worse, as I have said, its cause is to prevent life. How about that for a mission? Sure would be nice to wake up and go to work there every morning, eh? Honestly, there is not ONE thing good about PP…not ONE thing. It is, perhaps, the most inhumane organization on the planet…and I say “perhaps” only because inhumanity seems to breed rapidly.
So, Glen, let me explain what I mean by “the most inhumane.” You know how we crazy right-wingers like to point out that Margaret Sanger, the founder of PP, was a racist pig? Well, we don’t do it to score debate points, at least I don’t. There is a clear correlation between PP-thinking and genocide…not a far leap from championing the prevention of life to the taking of it. Not a far leap from killing fetuses and killing old people (or just people you don’t like). Ms. Sanger’s friends, literally her friends, were the ones gassing Jews, starving East Europeans, and otherwise slaughtering millions of human beings in the name of “people are the problem.” Do you think that Oriental religions created the one-child policy…or could it have been, let’s see…um…communist pigs who learned from “enlightened” Ms. Sanger that it’s only “humane” to kill people…at least for the benefit of the ones who get to live.
Seriously folks, has anyone ever challenged your moronic thinking? You guys are WAY lazy…or think too highly of your intellects…because you have simply been lulled into your own sense of self-righteousness.
I look forward to your millions of comments (Cliff will probably have to create several new posts to accommodate your outrage). Unless, of course, you guys would rather have Ed be your spokesman and simply say to me…GFY.
My recommendation would be to simply shut up about this stuff and keep me from proving my points. :)
August 1st, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Thump!
August 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Wow, Paul, I’m sure you’re going to convince a lot of people with that self-important, sanctimonious rant. Good job buddy, way to win us over with your (self-perceived) erudite wisdom.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Hi Jenni; I was just on the PP site, and reviewed the “I didn’t spew” video.
In it Mr. Straight with the tie insists that, hello, oral sex IS sex. You also need to use a condom while having it, spew or not
I guess Bill Clinton missed the video, and for his part, I am sure he would insist that it all depends on what your definition of is…is.
Pretty clear he is into irresponsible sex, otherwise, how did his “spew” end up on Monicas’ dress?
What a hoot! I learned something today.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Paul:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply … and your personalized responses almost makes it feel like Christmas - a gift for each of us. Thank you!
Allow me to open my present first. You state that:
My response is, again, you assume what you set out to prove, albeit this time somewhat more subtly. Your view is the moment the sperm-dude penetrates the babe-sac, life begins. Thus, you conclude, all post-sex contraception or abortion is murder. A rather circular argument, me thinks. But, then again, given my view that “life” does not start at conception, then you could say the same thing about me - fair enough.
But, Paul, the thing that galls me is (and I am guessing here) you have absolutely no problem with executing the condemned. Indeed, my guess is that the Sutherland Institute is in favor of the death penalty (correct me if I am wrong). How do you reconcile the two positions? One the one hand, life is to be preserved at all cost, and on the other … well, just pull the trigger, he probably did it anyway!
And, btw, before you accuse me of being a hypocrite, I do not like, support or enjoy abortion. Instead, I support the option that this deeply personal decision must be left up to the woman (and the partner, if present) and her doctor/clergy/family. Further, let’s be real, Paul, the collective quiver is only so large!
August 1st, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Oh yeah, if you wish to make an appointment at PP, they tell you bring proof of citizenship, birth certificate at minimum.
Explanation?
August 1st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Paul - your entire argument consists of innuendo, ad hominem attacks, empty rhetoric and insults. Have you even bothered to actually read what people wrote here? I watched the videos you linked to and commented on them and none of them were about abortion. Why are you bringing it up? So you can rant and rave about it? Fine.
I think everyone here gets that you don’t like abortion. By all means, don’t have one. I can support you in you choose to not have abortion. Since you are a male its unlikely you will ever personally need an abortion so get off your soapbox and get back into the real world.
In the US 95% of people are having sex before marriage. We can preach at them and tell them they shouldn’t or we can meet them where they are in their lives and minister to the needs they have. As I said before, between 2/3 and 3/4 of teens report engaging in sexual intercourse. Again, we can wish it were otherwise or we can meet them where they are and meet the needs they have now. That is the essence of humanism - whether secular or Christian. The Social Gospel movement teaches much the same thing - we are called to serve God’s people in the world not to save their souls, which is God’s job, but to save our own souls. To serve God’s people, we must meet them where they are in their lives.
Europeans and Americans are all but indistinguishable from one another in terms of sexual behaviors, yet Europeans have significantly lower rates of STIs, unintended pregnancies and abortions. It’s been a while since I studied the numbers, but IIRC the highest abortion rate in the EU is still less than half the rate in the US; 41% of American women, sometime during their reproductive lives, will have an abortion; more than half of those women will already have living children (and a spouse) when they get an abortion. If you want to reduce the abortion rate, reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. The European model - comprehensive, life span sexuality education - works in the real world. The US has the highest rate of STI, unintended pregnancy and abortion in the industrialized world (although Australia runs a very close second).
Planned Parenthood’s mission statement - Every child a wanted child - sums up what they do. They provide a full range of reproductive health services, starting with the most basic exams. Millions of women have relied on PP for contraception when they could not afford it and certainly could not afford to have a child. PP empowers people to understand and manage their fertility. Contraception is a good thing - effective, modern contraception - is a good thing. 98% of American women have used or are currently using contraception. That’s a good thing. You can get sentimental and pretend its about “preventing life” but that doesn’t mean that women should play a game of pregnancy Russian roulette every time they have sex and sex isn’t just about procreation and while that can be one outcome the belief that it has to be is a premodern story in which we human beings are at the mercy of our biology. The social science research does not back up your claims about Planned Parenthood. Compared to their peers who have no sexuality education or who have abstinence only education, youth who complete comprehensive sexuality education programs delay having intercourse by up to 18 months, they are more likely to use contraception correctly and consistently, thus preventing STIs and unintended pregnancies. Abstinence only graduates are indistinguishable from their peers who have no sexuality education in terms of behaviors (although to be fair I saw one study that showed a single abstinence only program was effective but its content was very similar to comprehensive programs).
Your argument about Margaret Sanger is flawed; a great many educated people of her day believed in eugenics such a belief while wrong does not invalidate other areas of her life and work (just as many abolitionists were also racists, that doesn’t make them wrong on the question of slavery). Margaret Sanger was a public health nurse who saw the suffering of women when they had pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy and she vowed she would find ways to help women manage their fertility, she vowed she would find ways to help women plan the timing of their children’s births.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 am
Paul:
What I said was:
You said I wanted to:
If you can’t tell the difference between those two things, that’s your problem, but don’t put words in my mouth, please.
The optimal thing would be to use a condom since abstinence has proven to be unrealistic in previous years of the practice, but I was referring to the morning after pill as a perferred method. Please don’t put a vaccum in my hand.
Right wingers don’t make their daughters have rapists or anybody else’s babies they don’t want, they get abortions anywhere they can no matter how far into the pregnancy they are.
The abortion debate is a scam designed to take away our freedoms. When the courts determined that a woman had the right to self determination on this serious matter, it means we ALL have that same self determination on all other very personal matters as well. The intolerant don’t like that, so they turn it into a “we are pro-life” and “they are pro-death” argument and pound it into everybody’s brain for decades.
It’s a sickening strategy. Whenever right wing crazies talk about children or handicapped people in a discussion of law, look for the ulterior motive first. We “conservatives” in Utah waste millions upon millions of dollars and time to vote on machines that were sold to us as a way to help handicapped people vote. We’re ALL blind voters now.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:09 am
I’m just looking for an even keel in my bliss Paul, so since your elequence is functioning at such a high level, perhaps you can share your thoughts on an issue that’s been troubling me: Why it is that truely sane and enlightened people feel the need to distinguish and outlaw some of the many wonderful and merciful paths God provides us when it comes to the end of life, while seemingly sanctifying others? Does anyone escape death - isn’t it just a matter of time?
Also, I’ll admit that in my opinion, were certain peoples parents to have HAD abortions, the world might be a better place. Indulge us once again Paul: Do you suppose that God would raise up a stand-in for an evil soul that met such a fate?
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
Go Paul!
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:00 am
“Go Paul”.
I wouldn’t liken delusion to a forest, where when you get halfway through, emerging on the other side is a foregone conclusion.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 am
[...] a more informed version of what they would otherwise get from their peers at LDS Youth Conference (Ed Firmage, Jr. Says, August 1, 2008, 3:49 PM), 1) the only thing keeping the world’s goat population safe from human sexual predators is [...]
August 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Paul,
As a recently graduated highschool student I would consider myself an expert on the people that PP is targeting, I don’t find PP “the most despicable cause on Earth” in any way.
Although you may take the time to tell your kids the possible dangers of sex, some parents do not. Actually, most parents wouldn’t talk about half the stuff that those videos did with their kids (”I didn’t spew”). And even if they did it’s unlikely that they would listen. Parents telling their kids anything will automatically get the knee jerk response of doing the opposite. Yes, even your kids.
What’s wrong with informing kids who will have premarital sex about the possible dangers of it?
According to this report:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-03-11-std_n.htm
“At least one in four teenage girls nationwide has a sexually transmitted disease, or more than 3 million teens, according to the first study of its kind in this age group.”
That number is staggering, yet not surprising. Although STD’s (or STI’s) may have not been a huge problem eons ago when you yourself were berthed, they are now. Your lack of consideration for confused adolescents in need of access for information is more astonishing.
I also find the lightheartedness a breath of fresh air (albeit a little disarming). Any highschool student will confirm that it is a long shot from what we get in the mandated health class where all they show you are very graphic pictures of what they look like, but barely touch on any ways to prevent them other than not having sex. Especially in an environment like Utah that doesn’t even allow teachers to advocate the use of condoms.
Obviously not having sex is the only sure fire way not to get pregnant when you don’t want to, and the only sure fire way to prevent STD’s. But obviously “at least one in four teenage girls nationwide” didn’t listen. Maybe if they had more info (other than “just say no”) before they went into that they would’ve chose differently. If not, at least they’re trying.
Condoms or abortion, pick your poison. Just say no isn’t working.