Live Blogging The Democratic Convention
Some say that Barack Obama is too smart to win the presidency. Well, we’ve tried stupid for eight years. Maybe it’s time to try intelligence.
ed firmage
August 28th, 2008 by Ed Firmage 
Ed Firmage
August 28th, 2008 by Ed Firmage Ed Firmage
Some say that Barack Obama is too smart to win the presidency. Well, we’ve tried stupid for eight years. Maybe it’s time to try intelligence.
ed firmage
August 28th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Stupid STupid STUpid STUPid STUPId STUPID. Criminally STUPID!!!!
August 28th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I say he’s hittin’ the bottle full time by Christmas.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Right-wing Republicans will slither away into the shadows and the term far-left will be heard no more.
The real American dream is a democratic one. A dream in which a man can work hard and move into the middle class and send his kids to college.
The republican dream is a canard. Sure, some people go from Spam to Caviar in America, but thats a dream that appeals to greed. This was Reagan’s only genius.
The only better reason to elect Barack Obama than because of who he is, Michelle Obama. The first time I heard her speak, unscripted, in Delaware, is the same time I became certain that president Obama must become a reality. I thought to myself, ‘I want that woman in the white House, period.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Enough!
August 28th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Favorite line so far: After ridiculing Bush’s “ownership society,” Obama said it was “time for Republicans to own their failures.”
It amazed me that for years, the Party of Personal Responsibility, which controlled all three branches of the federal government, felt free to blame Democrats for everything that went wrong.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Obama: “Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws…”
Biden stands and applauds!
August 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
“John McCain likes to say he’ll follow bin Laden to the gates of hell, but he won’t even follow him to the cave where he lives.”
OK, I doubt if al-Qaeda HQ is actually a cave, but point taken.
“John McCain stands alone in his stubborn refusal to end a misguided war.”
Great point. Even the Bush administration now has agreed to a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Obama: Our veterans “have not served a Red America or a Blue America, but the United States of America.”
Flag-waving crowd: “USA! USA! USA!”
Great stuff.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
I think McSame just shit his pants.
The rats may start jumping ship while still in port!
August 28th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
2nd Amend. is safe with Obama!
Well, Bob and jd, you can sleep soundly tonight.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
August 28th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
He just slipped in a second Katrina reference, about neighbors who take in families who lost their homes.
Way too subtle! They should have run clips from Spike Lee’s Katrina documentary. And where was former Louisiana governor Kathleen Blanco?
August 28th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
See/ He IS patriotic.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Even some country music for the Bud drinkers.
The planners of this event are brilliant!
I think McSame just shit his pants again!
August 28th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
A bit dramatic with Biden and the wives at the end.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
At least their not all dancing to Fleetwood Mac!
August 28th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Remember John Kerry’s malfunctioning balloon drop? Forget it, we have fireworks now. Conventions will never be the same!
August 28th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Keith Olbermann counts:
29 specific policy proposals for the Obama administration
19 jabs at McCain’s proposals
August 28th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
You can watch it again on KUED channel 7 (Utah)
August 28th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I just can’t stop watching -#2 -
What breath of fresh air compared to the cokehead
August 28th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
What kind of government sits on its hands and watches a major American city drown.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Hey Cliff:
Give Monkey Boy a break. At least he did a fly-by in Air Force One!
August 28th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Cliff,
You need to get some new talking points from the Left Wing.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Albert,
Sorry if I’m a little skeptical on Obama’s 2nd amendment credentials based on statements during a campaign. I’m sure you will be shocked to learn that some politicians may lie during a campaign.
Obama doesn’t have a long history of legislation but there is enough to prove the saying
“His actions speak louder then his words”
August 29th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Bob S, thanks for referencing your source on the Katrina disaster. I appreciate your honesty.
You do know that Popular Mechanics is owned by the most unabashed, right-wing shrills for The Bush family - The Hearst Family.
So the question becomes, did you know that, and still want to believe the one source that has NO credibility on Bush issues? Do you care about objectivity, or are you also just shrilling for Bush whilst you cover your ears for fear of the truth trickling in.
You seem to want to win your battles pretty badly. One would think you would pick your battles better. Perhaps you are just new at this.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Cliff,
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with your political leanings is a shrill but if they agree they are credible experts?
I’ll be honest, I didn’t know or realize it was the Hearst family. Here is the rub, prove them wrong then, should be easy right?
If I post a dozen sources, you ignore them. What difference does it make then; one or 50? Would you honestly admit you were wrong?
I am new at this, I’ve only started being active on blogs in the past 12 months. I think I’ve done fairly well picking my battles, even when I’m ’schooled’ I still learn something so for me it’s a win win situation.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Bob S, Please Don’t be so daft. “Anytime” someone disagrees? Please. Did you not read the FACTS about PM?
Again, find me a source for which I can’t make an inside Bush connection. I didn’t pick PM, you did.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Bob, if you had followed our 9/11 conspiracy theory threads, you would know better than to cite Popular Mechanics to Cliff. They devoted a special issue to debunking the myths.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Richard,
That proves my point that I’m trying to make. It doesn’t matter what source I use to debunk one of Cliff’s theories.
I did follow the 9/11 thread. Take that information for what it’s worth.
Cliff, in the point counter point format of debate; shouldn’t you be offering the same unbiased type of information in rebuttal instead of refusing to consider the data?
August 29th, 2008 at 8:09 am
Of course, I agree with Aaron Broussard. Did you see Broussard’s interview on “Meet the Press”? Check it out.
“Impassioned news anchors” didn’t cause the Katrina disaster in NOLA (although Geraldo did go over the top). It wasn’t a perception problem. The federal government reneged on commitments of emergency aid. In St. Bernard Parish, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police arrived to help out before FEMA did.
Thousands of people were rescued from rooftops by the U.S. Coast Guard, which performed heroically. But most of these people were dropped off at isolated places without any available services. Not even drinking water. They spent days waiting for help as dead bodies floated around them.
In a new study of 971 Katrina fatalities, it says that more than 25 percent of the deaths with a known location occurred at the Superdome, the Convention Center, and other places where people waited for help that never came.
The whole country saw this on live TV, except for President Bush (they gave him a DVD later).
August 29th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Did anyone that is not voting for Obama watch the Democrat convention?
August 29th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Richard,
That is a very vague and slightly misleading statistic
It really makes it seems if there people were waiting at the Superdome (refuge of last resort) and the Convention Center (not a designated refuge center–something people broke into) and died there.
I’m not seeing that those 2 locations were a problem for a great number of deaths
So over 230 bodies were found at other locations, what other locations? Pick up points, homes, etc? I’ve looked and can’t find where the bodies were found.
I don’t find it hard to believe that in a disaster like this approximately 230 bodies would be found in homes, apartments and other building throughout the area. So, if there was a massive amount of dying where people were waiting, what are those places?
I’m asking seriously in order to investigate the issue.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Bob S.– I haven’t looked for an online copy of the study. Based on what I’ve seen on TV and read about, there were many places isolated by flood waters where people were trapped after leaving their homes. In some cases, large numbers of people spent days on highway embankments with no shelter at all.
Here’s the relevant quote from the AP article I linked to:
Regarding your claim that the Convention Center wasn’t supposed to house disaster victims, where were they supposed to go? From Wikipedia:
August 29th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Richard,
I very carefully, splitting hairs perhaps, stated that it wasn’t supposed to be a refuge center.
This further points out in addition to the federal mis-management, there were severe deficiencies in the local response to the disaster.
I think there are many lessons to be learned, but I’m a firm believer in that self reliance, personal responsibility school of philosophy so the first thing I realized is not to depend on the government. Not at any level, city, state, federal as the only way to keep my family and I safe.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:53 am
That’s great, Bob, and I agree with you. Now let’s discuss everyone else - the federal government failed these people, and badly so!!
August 29th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Bob S.– So, you approve of dropping helpless people off at the NOLA Convention Center and then telling them to be self-reliant. If they did that to me, I’d be the first to break down the doors.
August 29th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Albert - Richard,
First, let’s be truthful. The people failed themselves first, foremost and primarily. No one should require the government to tell them to take precautions, to evacuate, to not to break into a facility not ready to handle an emergency.
If the people had acted first, the city would have been forced to evacuate them sooner even if they didn’t have a way out. Many people in the same situation took themselves out of the city.
The people should have known where the refuge centers were and made it there. Who dropped them off at the Convention center? Fire department, Cops? People who should have been part of the solution not the problem but the people should have known where to go. Do you know where to go in case of emergency?
Second, the city government failed them. New Orleans own evacuation plans were not followed. The city did not prepare adequate shelter and refuge, even though their own planning stated they would have more people who wouldn’t leave.
Third, The state government failed to act to alleviate the situation.
Fourth, the federal government failed, yes. But it is not just the fed’s fault.
This is what I was saying. I live in Tornado Alley, should I not stock batteries, flashlights, shelf stable foods? Should I not have insurance on my house? Gas in my cars?
Or should I only depend on the government to ride in; provide me with food, shelter, replace my house?
Here is the issue that I really find insulting “dropping helpless people”.
Unless people are medically incapable of movement, they aren’t helpless. Why do we continue to insist otherwise unless it’s keep the victim game going.
There were many levels of failure, but who do you want to have the primary responsibility for an individual? That individual or the federal government?
August 29th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Bob S.– I actually assumed you were here in Utah. My usual response to the “let Katrina victims eat cake” argument is that we shall see what happens when the Wasatch Front gets hit by a major earthquake. Despite the best preparations, our state government will be able to do little to cope with such a disaster. All the Utah right-wingers who say they believe in personal responsibility and self-reliance will be screaming for federal help.
August 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Richard,
At some level, screaming for help is an appropriate response.
I agree there was massive mismanagement in the preparation, coordination and response to Katrina. I’m just not ready to blame only the federal government for the issue.
No one is saying that any individual is solely on their own, I think it’s like the safety lectures on commercial airlines. When the emergency oxygen masks drop, what do they tell you to do?
The instructions are to take care of yourself first, so that you can then be in a position to help others. How is what I’ve been saying any different?
August 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Bob S.– Thought experiment. You are the President of the United States. CNN is showing a live report of Americans in a major U.S. city, traumatized by an enormous disaster, out of food and water, standing next to dead bodies, no hope of rescue. Would it be too much trouble for you to pick up the phone and give the order to save their lives?
Or would you think, as Donald Rumsfeld actually told Sean Hannity in 2005, “The Department of Defense is not a first responder.”
August 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Cliff - you really are a fool.
Hearst also owns the San Francisco Chronicle and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Are you suggesting that the PI and the Chronicle are right wing newspapers, too?
Wrong on the facts AGAIN, Cliff Lyon.
August 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Richard,
Is the Department of Defense a first responder? Absolutely not! Not by any planning, organizational or even legal definition.
Are news reports always accurate?
Legal -Have the appropriate legal, statutory requirements been might? There are laws and processes that must be followed before the President can act, right?
I would be on the phone, talking to state, local officials working to get them to respond and provide accurate, verifiable information on what THEIR actions are, THEIR plans are and how can THEN the federal government assist. Because isn’t that the way it is supposed to work?
Now, I didn’t see an answer to who should be responsible for an individual; the individual or the government. Shouldn’t the city, parish, and state government then be the next in line to help the individual?
Political - What would the fall out be for Bush — BUSHITLER as many people call him, ordering in troops and assistance without going through the proper channels, protocols and politicos?
Think Bush wouldn’t have been crucified for not following tradition?
August 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Let me offer an interesting account of what a President who’s paying attention does when a hurricane hits New Orleans, Louisiana.
On September 10, 1965, just 24 hours after Hurricane Betsy struck the city, Lyndon Johnson’s Air Force One was wheels up at Andrews Air Force Base. As the President explained in a phone call to his director of emergency planning, Buford Ellington, he felt the people of Louisiana “feel like nobody cares about them, and they voted against us, and they feel like they’re kind of on the outside.”
Still think Bush was (is) a decent President? He’s the worst ever, isn’t he? You can admit it here.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Richard,
Nice touching story, how well would it have played out in today’s world and media?
A president of either party would be crucified as grandstanding. Not leading from where the resources are and on and on.
Can we agree that the people are first and primarily responsible for themselves?
Can we agree that the local governments are the first responders?
Can we agree there are rules, regulations, laws, protocol and tradition limiting the actions of a president?
And in most cases, those limitations aren’t a bad thing?
August 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Bob S.–
I appreciate your confidence in first responders and your smug agreement with Rumsfeld that the DOD is not one. However, the law and reality are not on your side. The National Emergencies Act of 1976 applies.
Losing a major U.S. city to a natural disaster or an enemy attack counts as a national emergency. It should be obvious that local and state governments are overwhelmed– that’s why they call it a national emergency.
President Bush declared an emergency on August 27, 2005, giving FEMA authority “to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.”
Only after the federal government failed to deliver on its promises did we hear right-wingers hypocritically claiming that the power of the President is limited. These are the same people who believe in a unitary executive with unlimited power!
August 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Richard,
Show me any definition, legal, statutory or otherwise that classifies the DOD as first responders. Just because people want it to be true, doesn’t make it.
Is the DOD in the chain of response, absolutely.
Let’s go back to what I originally said…are their limitations to presidential power?
Or how about this:
ICS requires that a command system be established from the onset of incident operations, thereby ensuring a unified command and the efficient coordination of multi-agency and multi-jurisdictional efforts.32 Recognizing that most incidents are managed locally, the command function under ICS is set up at the lowest level of the response, and grows to encompass other agencies and jurisdictions as they arrive
Please note the local management and that grows to encompass other responders as they arrive.
Are you arguing that Bush should have ordered in Federal troops without the permission, coordination or control of the local and state governments?
Are you saying that Bush should have ordered the evacuation of New Orleans instead of Mayor Nagin.
And let’s talk about Mississippi’s response and how it varied from New Orleans. Or Alabama’s. This failure does not rest solely on one person no matter hard people spin it.
This is absolutely ridiculous; Bush would have been pilloried had he responded too quickly as he has been for the response being too slow.
Instead of looking also, note ALSO at the failures of the state and local governments; it seems the problem should only be pointed at Bush.
How about addressing the city and state failures? Did those executives do their jobs properly?
I don’t know where you are hearing people wanting an unitary executive with unlimited power, it certainly isn’t from me.
August 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Bob S.– We’re not going to agree on the Bush administration’s Katrina malfeasance. You keep hiding behind technicalities and hypotheticals. Take a look at the Katrina timeline I linked to above– what’s the second item?
Bush sent most of the National Guard to Iraq, therefore the DOD was needed, and the request was made three days before Katrina hit the coast.
I am very glad, however, to learn that you reject the unitary executive theory. True conservatives don’t support dictatorial powers in the White House IMHO.
August 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Michael Moore wrote this excerpt about the New Orleans tragedy and has resent it to his subscribers now:
As usual, Mike nails it!
We’ve tried stupid (and flippant) for eight years. Maybe it’s time to try intelligence.
Gee, I hope Obama doesn’t make the inexcusable mistake of sighing at McCain’s naked ignorance the way Gore did at the debates. Of course the “news” networks will focus on Obama’s elitism and send the country and themselves to ruin.
August 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Richard,
The National Guard is part of the Department of Defense. Since you were once in the Army, you should know your chain of command. Further, within 24 hours, 7500 NG troops were in NO.
From Bob’s original source:
50,000 Guardsmen? That hardly seems like they weren’t able to help, does it.
What’s amusing about this, Richard, is that we’ve been through this already - way back in June - on OneUtah. And Bob S. covered your myth about the National Guard and he provided sources and citations.
And you refuse to accept the facts - making the same asinine assertions - spitting out the same tired lies as you did back then.
Why is that, Richard?
Why do you insist on being so consistently wrong - and so freaking stubborn about it?
August 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
There is no book called “My Pet Goat”.
Besides that, Moore is an inveterate liar.
I can see how you relate to him, Larry.
August 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
It’s amazing that we can’t agree on the facts three years later, with a new hurricane bearing down on New Orleans. Some people can’t accept that the Bush administration has been such a dismal failure…
August 29th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Richard,
That is the problem
You and others want to make this about a BUSH failure. Not a city, parish, state, and federal failure. Nope it seems like anything and everything that went wrong, it’s Bush’s fault. And that is simply NOT TRUE.
Can you admit that New Orlean’s own emergency plans weren’t followed?
Can you admit that Blanco and Louisiana state officials mis-managed responses to Katrina?
There were failures at the Federal level without a doubt but they aren’t the only ones, right?