Richard WarnickLive Blogging: RNC & McCain
Fun fact: On MSNBC tonight, they pointed out that the word “Republican” does not appear in big print anywhere in the arena.
Senator McCain in front of his ever-popular green screen…
They showed a nauseating 9/11 video, blaming the Iranians as if they were part of al-Qaeda. Where’s Joe Lieberman when you need him, to again point out the differences between Shiites and Sunnis? Keith Olbermann followed the vid with a mini-editorial against exploiting those images of the Twin Towers yet again for political pruposes.
A snarling (literally snarling, I didn’t know he could do that) Senator Lindsay Graham delivered an Iraq “surge” victory speech and accused Barack Obama and the Democrats of trying to surrender and doing everything they could to “lose” the Iraq occupation. Very ugly stuff, accusing the other party of treason.
How did Senator Graham define victory? Simple: an Iraq that rejects al-Qaeda. You know, like Saddam Hussein did before we destroyed his regime and shattered the country with our invasion.
…Not a green screen, it turns out, but possibly one of McCain’s many hard-to-count mansions? This actually turned out to be a middle school in North Hollywood, CA that was chosen at random– as if McCain was talking in front of a giant screen saver.
After Graham, we got to see the Sarah Palin “mother, moose hunter” movie that was yanked last night when Rudy Giuliani went long. I especially liked the beautiful, scenic shot of a polar bear– the same species that Palin wants to wipe off the face of the Earth.
Then it was Tom Ridge, of color-coded terror warning fame. Didn’t get much of that speech, the talking heads talked over it.
Now it’s St. Cindy on video, with the late Mother Teresa. Didn’t John McCain have a first wife, who waited for him faithfully while he was in a North Vietnamese prison? Who he was still married to when he started dating Cindy? Where is she?
Now Cindy McCain is talking, about the ability of people to solve every problem, “if only the federal government would get itself under control and out of our way.” We don’t have an estimate of tonight’s green outfit, but Tuesday night’s banana suit cost $300,000. Let ‘em eat cake!
OK, I think McCain is up next. Let’s follow along in the comments…
September 4th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I can’t believe they are showing a dramatic promo on 9/11 with burning buildings graves and all.
There really is no level of shame too low.
September 4th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Why is Cindy speaking again?
Isn’t she the one he called the ‘C’-word?
If my husband ever called me that name, there is not way I could get up in front of all those people and TV and tell the world what a wonderful man he is.
She makes me sick.
September 4th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
They just keep telling these inspirational stories as if we are supposed to assign these qualities to them automatically.
September 4th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Tomie, Cindy is blinking badly at the end when she said, an great man, a wonderful man, and a great Father. She did all the body language that says “I’m lying.”
You do know, the guy can be very mean.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Peniel on McNiel Lehrer remonds us that Obama get WAY more campaign donations than McCain from troops serving overseas.
Whats THAT tell ya?
September 4th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
I doubt if career military people want to spend their whole careers dodging IEDs in 130-degree desert heat. Obama might throw them a lifeline, if he’s serious about ending the occupation of Iraq.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Jon Stewart on Bill O’Reilly on Palin and Bristols Baby
September 4th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Don’t hold your breath. McCain could give a shit about reality on the ground. He gonna push hard for an extended occupation.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Video on John McCain’s career. Almost became the first Navy pilot to sink a U.S. aircraft carrier, the Forrestal. But he survived– “perhaps he had more to do,” the narrator intone portentously. Then the POW experience, heroic as hell but how exactly can you refuse to be released from a prison camp if they want to release you?
September 4th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
The POW thing has been thoroughly driven home. I’m really clear. John was a POW. Got it. I think.
Wait..no
Tell me again John.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I just donated online to Obama.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I’m maxed out. Can I make you my son?
September 4th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
The Conquering Hero appears in a darkened arena. Now he’s speaking against a green background– Stephen Colbert will love this.
Demonstrator being hustled away– his sign says “You can’t win an occupation” and “McCain votes against vets” on the other side.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
“Cindy said a lot of wonderful things about me. She’s more my inspiration than I am her’s”
Then he looked straight down, and kept them there while people clapped.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
NIIIICE! Someone unfurled a banner or something.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Code Pink alert! All hands on deck. McCain interrupts speech while they throw out another demonstrator. This kind of thing never happens to Bush!
September 4th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
INFILTRATORS!
September 4th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
September 4th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
McCain praised himself, Cindy, Palin, hasn’t talked about issues yet unless “the road to prosperity and peace” is an issue.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
McCain is his worst enemy when he speaks.
Listening to monkey man is more entertaining than this.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
“Change is coming… you can count on it.” Truer words were never spoken.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Cliff, thanks for the video. It saved me from slashing my wrists during McCain’s speech. I’m going to steal it for my own blog.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
So, have you heard the new crap on Palin today? 5 colleges in 6 years. Nice. Majored in journalism and never was on the campus newspaper or tv station.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
“I fought for the right strategy and more troops in Iraq when it wasn’t the popular thing to do… I’d rather lose an election than see my country lose a war.”
General Eric Shinseki, to Congress in 2003: at least several hundred thousand troops needed to successfully occupy Iraq (privately, he said half a million). The so-called “surge” never had a chance.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
The overwhelming number of caucasians at the convention is entirely consistent with the GOP’s apparent desire to roll back the clock 50 years. Former soldier in the White House, Cold War, women cranking out babies, gays all back in the closet, cops giving malcontents what-for without fear of retribution, non-whites who KNOW THEIR PLACE and don’t act all uppity by graduating at the top of their Harvard class or running for president.
To all caucasians who buy into the GOP vision of America, know this, they STILL intend to outsource your jobs.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Call and response:
McCain lies about what Obama will do as President
Crowd boos
McCain lies about what Obama will do as President
Crowd boos
McCain lies about what Obama will do as President
Crowd boos
Repeat ad nauseam…
September 4th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
The racial homogeneity of the fascist GOP has long been taken for granted by those with 3 er more functionin’ brain cellz…but your thesis was demonstrated in full color (so ta speak) for those of us in the march on Monday.
And not only were the majority of the delegates and convention participants that we saw white as a KKK sheet, but they appeared ta be mostly over 60 years of age, boast Dixie accents and were scared ta death of goin outside without a police escort.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
It feels like he knows he’s gonna lose and he’s just going through the motions.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
drill, drill, drill …
September 4th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
I think the gay marriage issue of 2004 has been replaced by “drill now” in this election.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Fake homemade sign: “Environmentalists for McCain” - guy waving it enthusiastically to celebrate DRILL NOW!
September 4th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
fear, fear, fear ….
September 4th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
more fear …
September 4th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
yet more fear …
September 4th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
More wars– Iran, Georgia, anybody who “doesn’t believe in a peaceful world” will get bombed if McCain is elected. Crowd loves it.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Warmonger –
September 4th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Did he just say, “we just have to catch up to history…and change the way business is run in Washington”?
I believe he did
September 4th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
“Get this country moving again.” Steve Forbes called, wants his lame slogan back.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Telling the POW story again.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
This guy is a human Anesthetic
September 4th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
So it took a POW experience to get him see that one should rise above selfishness.
I’m glad he gets it. Sorry it was so hard.
September 4th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Oh my GOD, he’s still talking about the camp and knocking on walls.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
“I wasn’t my own man anymore. I was my Countries”
BRILLIANT! BRAVO!
September 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
getting pretty pathetic at this point …
September 4th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
A noun, a verb, and POW
September 4th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I was hoping for the “cross in the dirt” story that he stole from The Gulag Archipelago by Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. Didn’t use it this time.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
He’s gonna give himself a heart attack
September 4th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Finally … it’s over!
September 4th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Schadenfreude
September 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Schadenfreude is right. Such a sad little Napoleon.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Snark from Talking Points Memo:
September 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Is it over yet?
I kept hearing him say things that aren’t important, so I kept falling asleep… only to be woken up by those irritating USA chants.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
No Shit! That was awful.
I wonder how/if they got the right to Earth Wind and Fire. Its the first recognizable song they’ve played.
They can’t get any respectable band to sell them rights.
Its a revolution.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Just for the sake of completeness, HuffPo has the full text.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Did anyone notice that McCain went out there naked?
September 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
This guy reeks of incompetence and lack of imagination.
I think the country is tired of that.
I
AM
NOT
YOUR
FRIEND
asshole
September 4th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Bush promised change too and look at the change we got! McCain relies on being a ‘war hero’ and putting ‘country first’ due to having been a POW to cover talking in generalities and platitudes. He did not give ANY specifics about his plan, … that’s because his plan does not do anything for the average person and would be rejected.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Obama Raises $8 Million After Palin Speech
September 4th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
September 4th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Man… you all have been busy… Seems like most everyone is really down on the whole POW thing around here the last several days… After all, military service is just a… what did you call it Cliff? Oh yeah!!! a SHIT JOB right? Just a bunch of war mongers, right? The only good veteran is the one you can get to speak at a peace rally right?
Hey, I’ve got an idea… We should do a live blog from the VA Hospital some time… Then we can kill two birds with one stone… We can tell veteran’s they did a shit job while holding up the VA System as the model of American socialized medicine. It’ll be fun… Any takers?
Too bad Obama couldn’t serve, but I know he had a higher calling as a paid volunteer after college. (Is that an oxymoron? paid-volunteer? oh yeah… community organizer.)
September 4th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Richard:
Reading your comments is getting to be like listening to McCain’s speech tonight: entirely too painful and boring, a nothingburger, so to speak.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Richard,
I think most Americans think very highly of Senator McCain’s service and particularly his strength of endurance in Hanoi, and rightly so.
However, I also admire community organizers, particularly those who do so at some considerable financial sacrifice, which would be most of them.
We shouldn’t run down the biographies of either candidate.
I speak as a military veteran, but not as a veteran of community organizing.
I thought Senator McCain’s speech was heartfelt and reassuring, though not a barn burner. It didn’t change my vote, but it did remind me of some of the more positive possibilities of a McCain presidency. Then again, I didn’t think the Bush presidency would turn out as badly as it has. McCain could be much more of his own man than Bush. The GOP base might have cause to worry about that.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Albert… So I guess you don’t want to liveblog from the VA with me right?
On the side of reality… Tyson just wrote one of the best posts I have read since the conventions began… It appeared in response to a strong discussion about fact checking candidates. I thought everyone here might dig it.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Richard O:
Why would I join you in exploiting military veterans?
September 4th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Albert… I am sorry.. sometimes sarcasm doesn’t translate well when written.
You probably don’t know this but I am a service connected disabled veteran. I have spent plenty of time at VA Hospitals which included 6 surgeries with over six feet of scars and I assure you that I would never go there to exploit veterans. I personally am discouraged when I hear ex-POW’s being demeaned for their service by having that experience just brushed aside in a casual statement. While I know it may seem like it is brought up a lot, especially by those that want to see McCain elected, I will never criticize him for doing it. Some things we just need to show a little respect for, regardless of our political affiliations. He can brag about it all day long if he likes and I would never interrupt him.
You seriously should take a trip down to the VA sometime and sit down in one of the overcrowded waiting rooms. Strike up a conversation with a veteran and you will likely see what I mean. For some crazy reason, people think that veterans and servicemen love war.. Nothing is farther from the truth… What they love is to serve… Isn’t that what Obama always talks about, service to your country?
I would hope we would agree that McCain has earned the right to brag all he wants about his military service. I’m sure if people here wanted to they could find plenty of other things to disagree with him on.
Obama talks about this country as being broken, well I think he is right and one of the biggest things broken in this country is the way we thumb our noses at sacrificial service to our nation. It is probably the only thing on both sides of these campaigns that isn’t fake.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:14 am
I respect McCain’s military service but how does that make him more qualified to be president? If that’s the case when Palin’s son gets back he can run………I can see it now Palin & Palin 2012.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Bottom line: Take McCain’s speech, remove the war hero talk, and you have a speech that George W. Bush could have given. McCain’s slogan should be: “Oil Companies First.”
September 5th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Why is it suddenly unpatriotic to admit that the country is a mess? That is the way Republicans are acting. Is all of this beating on our chests going to solve the mortgage crisis? The healthcare crisis? When they say ‘Country First’ what do they mean? I’m really beginning to think its about war and how we need to go and defend ourselves abroad while going to hell in a handbag at home.
At this point, I don’t think I’d vote Republican even if Elliot Spitzer was the Democratic choice becuase I will never forgive them for the footage of 9/11. They continue to use terror as a way to win votes and that is wrong, cruel and bullying.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Oh God, here we go with the Vet thing.
Richard, tell me see if I miss anything.
You are a disabled Veteran, therefore you speak for all Veterans.
You are a disabled Veteran, therefore you are an expert on all subjects related to war.
You were a paid volunteer (enlisted) but paid community service doesn’t compare to military service. (Okelberries, did you return your paychecks un-cashed? How about the socialist disability checks?)
If a Veteran is disabled, he cannot be criticized for talking about it constantly. We just have to listen and thank you for your service over and over and over.
All Veterans are immune to criticism and automatically more patriotic than people who did not serve.
If a Veteran is injured, he is more brave than anyone else on the planet including other nations’ Veterans, but except for other injured Veterans.
People who did not serve are a sub-species of American unless they kiss the feet of a Veteran everyday, or have a close relative who was imprisoned, tortured, or made the ultimate sacrifice.
To answer your question Richard, YES, the only good Veterans are the ones like Col. Gil Iker who show up and speak out at anti-war rallies. Do you?
If you are not a Veteran, you should just shut up and let them run the country.
Know what RO, I know a whole shit load of people serving in Iraq who hate McCain so badly, they are sending millions to Obama, the paid community organizer.
btw: Albert O has 7 feet of scars. Its true. Motorcycle accident. Is recovery harder if you were injured while serving?
September 5th, 2008 at 6:48 am
I imagine that they put the war hero stuff in there to show self sacrifice for the country. I believe that is what they mean by “Country First.” Country before self is a strong theme in the military, and I believe that they are trying to tap into that. Sayings like that play very well in the Midwest and small towns across America through the conservative base.
I agree, that McCain’s PR people are in serious jeopardy of over playing his military service. If you say the same thing too many times and it begins to lose it’s impact, regardless of what it is. I just don’t think the over use of his service is a good enough reason to mock it. The man has a voting record that is long enough to stretch from sea to sea giving people plenty of room to criticize him. Also, I do think they wanted to mention his service at least once a night for viewers that didn’t watch the entire convention, but I personally think they would have done better to do a small section of his life, each night the a brief recap the last night.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Good Veteran
Bad Veterans
September 5th, 2008 at 6:59 am
I had a feeling that my last post to Don was going to bring out another anti veteran back lash from Cliff… Does it make you feel strong standing up to veterans Cliff? You were really the one that I was aiming the statement about going down to the VA at anyway Cliff. You up to telling some Vets off to their face, Cliff? Heck, I’ll even shoot a video of it for you Cliff… We can put it on the Blog Here… Don’t worry Cliff, most of them a bit only and are usually at the VA hospital for a reason. Just give me the date CLiff… We could even stop by the VFW after wards if you like… Show us how ready you are to fall on that sword Warrior Cliff…
By the way… How many other people here agree with what Cliff just wrote? Anyone else want to stand behind him?
September 5th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Self sacrifice? Do you honestly think McChange enlisted because he wanted to sacrifice himself?
Do we automatically assume all enlisted men are doing it for Country? Search your soul Okelberries.
Some do it for Citizenship, some to get out of poverty and an education, some because Daddy and Gramps did and they have no choice (anyone you know?).
Some do it for ADVENTURE! Others for a chance at hero worship.
Kerry spoke the truth when he talked about how with no education in a bad economy, the least fortunate choose the Military.
You need to get over McCain’s sacrifice bullshit. The only thing he sacrificed is his his first marriage for money and 7 homes.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Hey Richard, would you like to meet retired Marine Colonel Gil Iker? How about lunch. the three of us. I’m buying.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:08 am
There you go again. I wasn’t talking about ALL Veterans. You seem not to hear my point. You do not speak for all Veterans, Gil Iker, or any Veterans for that matter. You speak for Richard Okelberries don’t you?
You just don’t get it do you.
Btw: I’m off to meetings (to serve my community). Back around 2pm.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:10 am
RO:
The point I was trying to make is the POW experience has been so over-played, it borders on the ridiculous. The experience is 40 years old, at least, and, therefore, highly irrelevant to running a modern America.
Further, as someone pointed out above, if you remove the experience from the speech(s), one is left scratching his or her head and wondering, where’s the beef.
But I will agree with you on one point, if we Americans want to see suffering every bit as powerful and more than that experienced by McCain, all one has to do is pop into Walter Reid or a local VA hospital and see the injuries produced in Iraq resulting from Bush’s awesome little adventure.
In sum, I just don’t see how the experience makes McCain more fit than others to lead the country, and by continually repeating the gore just makes me wonder more and more, where’s the beef.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:37 am
I totally respect the sacrifices McCain made during the Vietnam war but those experiences do not make him an expert on war today, war in general or foreign policy. In fact, his VIETNAM experience worries me a great deal because that makes him a 72 year old man wanting to lead the country into the 21st century. Now he’s touting that he will change Washington? How? By having a 44 year old woman who has only left the country once as his VP while he fills his cabinet with the likes of Graham, Liberman and Guiliani? No. Thank. You.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:44 am
A little ditty I picked up in the comment section at Politico.com. Don’t know if it is true or not, but worth taking a look.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Albert O.
I think your point is valid. I just don’t see how it should be such a major point of contention either. I would assume that those who are against the election of McCain would be thrilled with the fact that he is centering so much on it, rather than spending the valuable time in the national spot light talking about issues. Also, I think that the constant criticism of his military service, while it may play well here with Cliff, isn’t going to bring around the all powerful moderate vote. Imagine for second that we took some of the regular criticism of McCain’s service off of this web site and put it into a nation TV spot for Obama. Do you think his numbers would go up in the polls or down?
September 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am
It amazes me that Cindy is not offended that he lied to her about his age to win her love but then again, she also lied right back. They are living lies and nobody sees anything wrong with this? For me, that gives me an indication of the kinna people we are probably gonna have in White House if Americans don’t choose wisely!
September 5th, 2008 at 8:38 am
After a several days of Democrat talking points complaining that the Republicans weren’t putting forward any policy positions and only centering on McCain as a war hero, McCain comes out and delivers a speech chalked full of proposals and not one person here can challenge a single position?
What do you think your quote from the Politico says about the upcoming election, Albert? I think if McCain and Palin are lucky, the press will jump all over that story.
Cliff, I noticed not a single person has taken my challenge yet to stand behind your comments against Vets… Feeling kind of lonely over there in the corner of the room? Or maybe you are the only TRUE warrior… Right?
September 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
McCain offered policy positions? I mean, besides “DRILL NOW”?
September 5th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Richard O.,
I support and respect vets and their sacrifices. But McCain’s POW story has now reached the point of exploitation. It’s sort of like when youwere a kid and every time your mother wanted to shame you into obeying, she drug out the old “don’t forget I was the one who went through the pain of childbirth just to give you that life you enjoy . . .” At some point the thing gets worn out, used up, and has no value to anyone anymore.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Bekkieann,
Did you say the same thing when John Kerry repeated his Vietnam experience over and over again?
For Everyone else — And I’m not talking about the Swift Boat Veterans, Kerry himself used his Vietnam experience in his campaign. It was a cornerstone; remember his “reporting for duty” shtick at the convention.
Bob S.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I’m really loving the obligitory genuflection to vets….
That’s rich…
September 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
It’s a full on panic. Composure is lost, and the shaky supports are exposed.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Who’s going to tell me what McCain’s innovative policy proposals were last night? The guy has been in Washington 26 years, you might think he could rattle off solutions to every problem the nation faces without even needing a speechwriter.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Bush is not a good speaker. 2 term president. I’m thinking it doesn’t matter.
If solutions were the answer, what are the questions? That doesn’t seem to matter either.
It is a popularity contest, and McCain has the neatest friends these days.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Who– Bush had “the base.” McCain doesn’t automatically get that solid support, and besides “the base” has shrunk to around 20 percent of the electorate. Even Karl Rove can’t deliver McCain to the White House.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Just watch and wait. The media won’t cover the fact that the hinterlands aren’t going to vote for Barky. No one wants either of these guys, it is now a Palin for president scenario.
We’ll see if Simon Cowell(sp) agrees.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Yikes…Palin? First female President? A Republican?
Just like Jeanette Rankin - First woman in Congress.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
This election is going to be a referendum on Palin before it is over. She has the media flat footed, and Obama people are trying to latch on to anything to bring her down. Anyone heard where algore is hiding during all this? He must be on sedatives, global warming is being repudiated, and now some inexperienced hockey mom could take credit for inventing the internet.
It won’t work, mainstream America already loves her. Very predictable, would have been better if the left had ignored her. They are energizing her, and half dead McCain, and the “base” that wasn’t going to vote.
Shakespeare couldn’t write this. If McCain is elected, Palin becomes first woman pres 2nd term. Think Hillary has any hair left?
September 5th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I disagree Richard. As a free man, Karl Rove can deliver most races he wants. He just has to be able to make it seem plausible using the complicit media, high election officials, judges, lawyers, and voting machine companies who are running the most important aspects of the elections here and many other places. All of this talk about who won or who is going to win is just a fart in the wind.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Whatever happens, I still think Dean should get fired for not having this in the bag by now.
September 5th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Noun - Verb - Karl Rove….
September 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
BTW, still waiting to hear about McCain’s exciting new policy proposals…
Did he really threaten to do away with unemployment insurance? Maybe he should have kept quiet about that, the way he neglected to mention his plans to get rid of Social Security and bring back the military draft.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
The only folks I’ve ever heard seriously try to bring back the draft were Dems, Richard.
Rangel proposed the bill and Murtha and Stark voted for it.
Your claims about Social Security and Unemployment Insurance are bogus, too.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
jd, did you watch McCain’s speech? Here’s what he said:
Bear in mind that unemployment is now at a five-year high. People are trying to feed their families while looking for work. McCain’s words were not reassuring, and his position on unemployment insurance on his website says, “That program has no relevance to the world we live in today.”
McCain has consistently supported President Bush’s Social Security privatization plan, which would in effect end Social Security as a defined-benefit plan, the only such retirement plan most Americans qualify for.
As a practical matter, the new wars John McCain wants to start cannot be fought without draftees. This is obvious. Just last month, in answer to a question, he agreed that a draft will be required during a McCain administration.
OK, I answered your comment. What are the McCain policy proposals that you support, and what did he offer in last night’s speech that you think will help solve the problems created by the Bush administration?
September 6th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Richard W.
No doubt when you heard, “Government assistance for unemployed workers was designed for the economy of the 1950s. That’s going to change on my watch,” you heard that he wanted to eliminate the program. The rest of the country heard that he wanted to reform it. Have you even been to his web site? I challenge you to find any other place besides another liberal web site that says what you just said.
Also, Bush’s SS privatization program doesn’t eliminate SS they way you have implied, it only helps it grow more money through investment. Currently, while both candidates have a bunch of programs they would like to see enacted, McCain is the only one that is at least talking about reducing the size of government and getting wasteful spending under control. Maybe you need to watch this video from 60 minutes about the impending US financial collapse. David Walker, Controller General.
Finally, you know good and well that McCain was only giving a broad response to a long winded question in the video you displayed and not directly answering the question on the draft. Also, notice that the moment that he says I agree with everything you just said,” the editor cut the video off. More than likely McCain was about to say “except instituting the draft…” Maybe we should take a look at a direct question on the issue. McCain said no to draft in NH Finally, I should point out that we already have a draft that we call selective service while it is inactive. If Dems are so against the draft, why not remove selective service? That’s because under great catastrophe or need even Dems know that we may still need to draft people into service.
As far as unemployment goes, logic would dictate that unemployment would be almost completely wiped out if we eliminated illegal immigration. Would you support removing illegal immigrants from the country to free up jobs? There are currently 9.4 million people unemployed in the U.S. and there are currently between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. and against the popular opinion many of those are working in the skilled housing market where much of the US work force is hurting because of the housing slump. Are you for fixing the unemployment problem Richard? Or is unemployment nothing more than a statistic used to support Obama?
September 6th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Forgetting for a moment that the 9.4 unemployed number is so severely understated as to be almost irrelevant, the idea that deporting 10m Mexicans would fix the problem is so utterly corrupt as to qualify for the dumbest idea I have heard maybe ever.
If you continue to parrot the right-wing BS, Richard, your brain will eventually go completely numb. If one could only measure the scars in your brain…
I never did see an answer about whether or not you cashed your pay checks when you volunteered to serve your country.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Richard O.– You know as well as I do that the Republican Party is ideologically opposed to both unemployment insurance and Social Security. It’s hypocritical to pretend otherwise.
When President Bush says he wants to “save Social Security” he’s really talking about the elimination of Social Security as a defined-benefit retirement plan. McCain’s position is the same as Bush’s.
For unemployment insurance, you can tell me exactly what McCain’s “reform” proposal is or I will assume he wants to eliminate the program. No Democrat or Independent wants to “reform” the unemployment insurance program. It’s GOP code.
You also know that Barack Obama has plenty of proposals to help grow the economy, which is how you create full employment.
As for the draft, can you tell me how McCain is going to continue the open-ended occupation of Iraq against armed opposition from the Iraqis, continue the fight in Afghanistan, invade Iran and Syria, and deter Russia from its aims in the Caucasus without conscription? It can’t be done, IMHO, aside from the question of whether it should be done.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Yes, Cliff… I did cash my paychecks in the military. Which by the way were so substantial since I made about 30 cents per hour during deployment… I wonder how that compared to Obama’s paycheck as a Community Political Organizer. Maybe you’re also suggesting that the Police and Firefighters should also go without pay. Considering they are nothing more than a domestic form of the military, I imagine you would like to see them taken off of the government welfare program.
I think you missed my point in when you jumped to attack military service. What I did in the military is generally a position that most would be paid for. What Obama did was paid volunteer work. A community organizer is nothing more than a political hack paid to push a political agenda at a grassroots level. Here’s how it works… You send a guy in to community with problems, he promises to solve all those problems by getting government money if they only will follow his political philosophy. “Community Organizing” is nothing more than the re-institution of the Party Machines that plagued politics in the past. Did you every study the Party Machines in school? If you did you will know that they had one of their strongest holds in Chicago… Coincidence?
While now days people aren’t forced to join a particular party to say get a particular job, they are being persuaded with tax dollars. Also, don’t you find it interesting that even in this modern day, some parts of the Democrat Party are so obsessed with party loyalty that they want people to have to take oaths of allegiance before voting in party primaries? I don’t remember for sure, but didn’t the Nazi’s also require some sort of oath as a condition of membership? Seems to me that the Party Machine ideal is still alive in Obama.
This election is slipping away from you Cliff. I think it’s time to dust off that passport again.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:33 am
RO:
Speaking of obsession, you appear obsessed with characterizing Obama’s community organization efforts as a negative. Quoted below is the first paragraph of the wikipedia entry:
RO, I am having trouble understanding your condescending attitude toward such activity, whether volunteer or paid or both.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Albert O.
It should be noted that Obama’s Community Organizing experience would not be receiving so much attention, if he had not so regularly held it up as a major cornerstone of his experience resume’. I find it very telling that when asked about it shortly after Palin’s speech, Obama himself backed down from it saying it was only 2 or 3 years of his life, then blamed the media for not focusing on his legal career. Just as Palin’s experience as a mayor becomes a more valid point of criticism when she uses it as an example of her experience, so does Obama’s Community Organizer experiences which was until Palin a major cornerstone of almost every speech he gave. Can you tell me when the last time he’s mentioned it in a speech now without being asked? Even he knows it has become a liability.
Finally, I think you should look into where Obama’s Community Organizing Paycheck was coming from. Be careful now… you may end up voting for McCain by the time you are done. When you find out, let everyone here know… No one here will believe it coming from me. Follow the money and tell me what you find…
September 6th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
RO:
Huh? You are rambling incoherently, now!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Obama’s organizing experience was key to his success this year, because he had an appreciation of the importance of the “ground game” in Presidential politics. That’s how he won the nomination, and that’s how he’ll make it to the White House. McCain has no ground game.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Richard W.
You forgot to mention that he uses the Alinsky:
Mike Kruglik, Obamas first mentor was really impressed with Obama’s “Community Organizing Skills,” saying;
Now… can you imagine any other great leaders through-out history described in a similar fashion?
Did you guys know that Chavez was a “Community Organizer” for example?
September 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Richard O:
Stop demonizing Gayle Ruzicka! She’s a very important woman!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
RO: And your point is… McCain’s going to lose? BTW, please link when quoting sources.
September 6th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Tweek Saul Alinsky, add a sheepish media, agitate, and agitate some more and the next thing you know, you’re torturing the lowly subjects of the zone you just ‘preemptively’ requisitioned from soverenty. Manipulating is not an exclusive Dem enterprize. What motivates the action is also of some importance. Obama sought to right some wrongs, Cheney wanted to rule the world. Kifee / Kifee? I don’t think so.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Richard O. -
when you quote sources (in response to Richard W.’s request) it’s ok to link to your own posts.
That’s how he does it….
BTW- RW..
Yay! End SS as a defined benefit program! Bring it back as a program to help the needy. Plenty of folks I know don’t need their SS $ when they retire (they put off buying that new TV in favor of investing for retirement).
Get over the draft crap. Again, those are the guys on your side agitating for that.
In other words, FIND ME A VOTE WHERE MCCAIN WANTED TO REINSTATE THE DRAFT. All else is just smoke an mirrors from a rank amateur (you, buddy).
September 7th, 2008 at 5:08 am
Yes, Richard W. you are correct. I am usually very diligent about quoting my sources but was running out the door yesterday with my family when I posted last. Let me put those together for you.
September 7th, 2008 at 5:24 am
JD,
You lazy comment about linking to one’s own posts being OK because Richard may not stand unchallenged.
The issue is sources.
Richard’s posts are meticulously sourced and one of the the reasons his post are cross referenced throughout the blogoshere.
His high standards do not provide Okelberries the same luxury (linking to his own posts because Richard does) as you advise.
Okelberries may however, reference Richards posts for source material.
Take your gun and go back under the porch.
September 7th, 2008 at 5:27 am
I originally pulled the two quotes from The Confluence, Barack Obama: Community Organizer.
But the two quotes used in that article originated from an article in the New Republic by Ryan Lizza from 2007; Barack Obama’s unlikely political education. The Agitator
September 7th, 2008 at 5:37 am
Albert O, - “Huh? You are rambling incoherently, now!”
Is that how you step out of a conversation? Did you not even attempt to discover who Obama worked for as a Community Organizer? Who was paying the bills and who he was collaborating with? I suspect that you did and realized that it might cast Obama in a bad light. Or perhaps you now realized who you have invested both your political and emotional future with. Did Barack trick you with the old, dangling carrot trick?
One thing is certain; if Karl Marx were recruiting here he would certainly find some malleable minds.
September 7th, 2008 at 5:39 am
Okelberries,
Care to support this statement?
Somehow, I am not surprised you would juxtapose an unsupported claim with one you’re not sure is true because you don’t remember.
That sir would describe dry vomit.
Would you like to be held to a higher standard, or would you like us to just leave you alone?
September 7th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Hey Okelberries,
You know how people think Utah is full of hicks and country bumkins? And you know how the further North head out of Salt Lake, the worse it gets?
I gotta tell ya, the Karl Marx invocation does nothing to weaken the stereotype.
One NEVER hears Marx invoked in real life anymore except by the shit stains on on and from Fox.
And you wonder how we can tell ‘you-don’t-know-me’ Okelberries is a right-wing zealot…
September 7th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Ah, Cliff my Brother…
Through-out the primary process, in an attempt to keep non-Democrats from voting in primaries, the Democrats began requiring voters to sign an Oath of Allegiance to the Party. This is well known and documented. (but if you would like to deny it Cliff, I will be more than willing to prove you wrong again.)
What is lesser known is the fact that the Democratic Leadership Council of which Hillary Clinton is a member and leader of also put together what is titled, “The Democratic Principals or Democratic Oath” This is a document that reads almost like a religious creed outlining the prescribed underlying beliefs.
As for Nazi Germany, how did I know that someone would fall into the trap of questioning me on that? Truly Cliff, as I have said before, “you have no greater purpose than the one I have given you.” You really should have looked this up before hand.
Tell me Cliff, are you saying you don’t aspire to the teachings of Carl Marx? You can do it Cliff, tell everyone what you don’t like about his teachings… After all you ARE THE ONE with a degree in philosophy. Tell us also, how Obama’s use of the Alinsky Method is dissimilar to techniques used by Mr. Marx. This should be good… (I’ll put money you don’t respond.)
September 7th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Thanks you Richard O,
I actually knew about the Hitler oath. The Bush administration implemented the exact same thing for certain federal level positions. The Constitutionality of that is being challenged.
I’m sorry you took the time to dig up evidence of the Nazi oath. I was challenging you to back up your claim that dems do the same thing.
As for the agitator thing, I will respond, perhaps in a top post. In preparation for that, I need understand what you mean by agitation.
Was The Boston Tea party agitation? What about the suffragette movement?
Was the birth of the labor movement in the 1920’s agitation?
How about the Selma march ?
Were the anti-Vietnam protests agitation?
You don’t have to answer that Okelberries. Of course all of those things came about through agitation.
So, if you could be a bit more clear about what you mean by the Alinksy method as it relates to agitation ala Karl Marx (proper spelling btw).
Oh yeah, ‘through-out [sic]‘ is hyphenated nowhere except in that special mind of yours. :)
…brother
September 7th, 2008 at 6:59 am
Somebody once said: Like father, like son. .I’ve always found it interesting that the Grand Pere Prescott Bush was a supporter of the Third Reich. perhaps even took an oath. Not that long ago.
Nowadays there’s ample prescedence for and evidence of the neocon loyalty applications that might have a judge sabatoged midterm for not meeting the new conventions (Blind support of the Commander in Chief). Perfectly rational in a ‘time of war’ (even one fomented in a brew of lies and self-interest)
From your high-horse you couldn’t tell a fascist without a mirror.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Oh JOY! Professor, Cliff Lyon is going to not only begin proof reading copy for us he is now going to give us a dissertation on “Agitation.”
This I believe is something you can do on your own Cliff, though I would suggest that you might find it useful to contrast the relatively benign Agitator used in washing machines to the techniques used by the early Nazi Party to stir up distrust of Jews in Germany. Also, please don’t forget to include a glowing review of the Alinsky Method. You can find quite a few references to it by simply reading some of Obama’s early writings.
This will be great! I eagerly await you Top Post!
By the way, I think you need a new nickname for me. The one you are using is just a little weak. Why not try “OkelFairy?” That’s the one that the playground bullies liked to use. I imagine it will make you feel big and strong too. Or is that just too politically-incorrect for you?
Also, you keep trying to support your argument by bashing Bush and Republicans. Did you for get? I am not a Republican and certainly no apologist for Bush.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:31 am
If you are not an apologist for Bush, ya sure fooled each and every one of us.
I’m sorry to hear you were bullied as a child.
I, almost singlehandedly, got Utah’s first anti-bullying resolution passed.
I think I’ll pass on the agitation canard. I think I’ve made my point….thanks to your cooperation.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:40 am
I wasn’t trying to be your proof reader, I was merely trying to point out that although we can measure how smart we are with IQ tests, intelligence is no substitute for a good education.
As a highly intelligent person, you should have great respect for education and maybe consider elevating that priority in your life before you have too many more kids.
You may have to home school them so they can pray in between subjects without raising the ire of the atheist agitators in public schools.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:47 am
As always, I appreciate your sympathy Cliff… You certainly are a credit to all anti-bullying agitators out there… Keep up the good work…
September 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am
OMG:
McCain is saying really foolish things again, this time on Face the Nation.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:50 am
jd says: “Plenty of folks I know don’t need their SS $ when they retire…”
We’re in agreement on something. For example, Senator John McCain, who calls the Social Security program “an absolute disgrace,” collected $23,157 in Social Security benefits last year even though his net worth is upwards of $100 million.
Also, I’m sure we’re all anxious to read jd’s plan for fighting McCain’s war on Iran and the other wars he wants to start without reinstating the draft.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Okieberry:
You keep ranting and hand-waving about Obama and Community Organizing. Do us all a favor, stop with the rhetorical mishmash, and just say what you mean. Enough of the obfuscation … if your point is so bloody strong, then just state it!
BTW, McCain praised Obama’s community organizing efforts on FN this am. What do you think about that?
September 7th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Thank Richard, I do what I can to improve the human condition.
Please pray for me.
September 7th, 2008 at 9:02 am
R.O.– The “community organizer” stuff is just another GOP distraction. The McCain campaign is of the rich, by the rich and for the rich.
They can’t talk about the issues in any meaningful way because they want to dismantle Social Security and unemployment insurance. They want to bail out rich investors while doing nothing for people who are losing their homes to foreclosure. They want to plunge America into more wars of aggression, which means bringing back the draft. There is no way they can talk openly about these plans.
Instead, we’re going to hear them say “community organizer” as often as possible because lots of uninformed people will hear “communist agitator.”
September 7th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Richard W.
You seem quite concerned for the economy at this point. Here is your chance to change the subject away from Obama being a “communist agitator,” and talk about Obama’s Economic theories. Now I know you’re going to throw out something like, “McCain admits that he knows nothing about the economy.” So I have saved you the trouble.
Let’s talk about what you find so embracing about Obama’s approach to the economy. I regularly hear that he is going to put people back to work and fix the economy. How exactly does he plan on doing this? Top down economics? (most likely not) Bottom up? How about Robin Hood Economics? Or is he simply going to increase taxes as he’s promised to stuff a few more sticks in the dike. To discuss this you might also want to throw in what you believe is the cause of the current economic downfall.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:08 am
R.O. — Senator Obama’s economic agenda was discussed here recently, so I’ll refer you to that exchange (there I go again, linking to “myself”).
Definitely, Obama wants to jump-start the economy instead of continuing to implement Bush’s disastrous policies. Tax cuts for the rich have been a mistake, as John McCain once dared to point out.
Our current president is the only one since Herbert Hoover to preside over a net job loss. Unemployment just hit a five-year high. In the last eight years, there have been 38 bank failures– 11 of them this year.
A record 1.2 million homeowners are facing foreclosure, and delinquent mortgages are also at a record high. The Bush administration’s only answer is to bail out wealthy Wall Street investors while doing nothing for Main Street.
When President Bush took office the national average gas price was $1.46 per gallon. I don’t need to tell you what it’s up to now. The percentage of Americans who say food is difficult to afford has grown from 27 percent to 38 percent since February.
John McCain promises, “change is coming… you can count on it.” But McCain isn’t bringing the change, Obama is. McCain and the GOP represent rich people, those who make $5 million a year or more. Unfortunately for them, that’s 0.01 percent of America.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Here’s the deal!
You can’t call yourself an “independent” this year unless you vote democrat. The huge rise of people in Utah who say they’re independent is because these are folks that used to be republicans and don’t want to be associated with something vile and deceitful.
The republican party has changed into everything Americans have stood and fought against, (or at least everything they SAID they stood against.) It is the party of Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich; NOT THE PEOPLE. The “architect” and “social engineer” are EXACTLY what Orwell warned against. They change the very language we use to describe ourselves and cast our votes for us. We don’t know who the people want to represent them and we don’t even know who we are AS A PEOPLE. These are traitors, and the only thing that can stop them is a democratic congress. That is even more important then who is president.
Send all of the incumbents on both sides a strong message and vote the present republican party out. The young people are getting active and they’re not going to let the democrats continue on the road to fascism. That’s nothing the democratic party wanted anyway or they would have took us there when they had all the power years ago.
Wake up “independents!”