Cliff LyonAnother National Embarasment - Jason Chavetz: Utah’s Newest Nazi
The Salt Lake Tribune’s Robert Gehrke holds himself to the highest standard of objective journalism so rare in the Utah media. He should be commended for his objectivity.
in An ‘odious reminder’, Chaffetz’s plan for tent cities is lambasted: Candidate’s immigration plan likened to WWII internment camps (archive link)
“Jason Chaffetz’s comments are more than just offensive and embarrassing to all Americans; they demonstrate a blatant disregard of the need to be vigilant in remembering the lessons learned from a disgraceful chapter in U.S. history. “
Some Utahn’s no doubt may view question the objectivity of that statement. But they will be unable to do so without revealing their racism and xenophobia. Chaffetz is an embarrassment to Utah, as was Cannon. The word ‘odious’ rings true.
I got this e-mail yesterday:
The Sutherland Institute is hosting the season’s first debate between Democratic Congressional Candidate Bennion Spencer and Republican Jason Chaffetz.
The debate will be open to bloggers and closed to both the public and the press.
The Utah Amicus will be blogging the debate live tomorrow, Sept 9 at 7:30 am.
For more information contact Shawn at ShawnColvin ‘at’ gmail.com
Note: “The debate will…closed to both the public and the press?”
Chavetz refuses to debate Spencer in public or to be recorded. Only Utah’s Sutherland Institute is unencumbered enough by integrity to host such an offense to public transparency.
Very sad.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Tent Cities for illegal immigrant felons? What is the big deal? We house our own criminals in tent cities down in Arizona. Illegal aliens are not citizens, we need to spend as little as possible to house them until they can be sent back home. Unless of course they are part of the 30% of the Us prison population cluttering our jails and prisons.
There are going to be a lot of illegals detained, do you wish to perhaps sponsor them at your house? Tents can be quite comfortable. Transiting the border without the benefit customs can be a Federal felony. Now enforceable. Soon to come to all sanctuary cities. This party is ending.
Just so you will know what way the winds are blowing Cliff. The ICE has random traffic control stops regularly up here in Liberal old Washington State. They have been picking up illegals quite often. Since they set up along the route to where people illegally harvest forest items, it will badly disrupt the illegal alien economy. Not only this, but all kinds of people on warrants, and the odd terror suspect. Equal opportunity pull over. No more contraband in the car. They search without warrant as border patrol homeland security.
The complaints are way too late. We should have dealt with this illegal alien problem when it could have been done before the implementation of the police state, now it is used on everyone, not just foreign lawbreakers.
People are already repatriating from down south, no more easy money.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
My dear wife suggested that Chaffetz and other freshman Republican members of Congress could be required to live in tents– hey, if it’s good enough for our troops…
September 9th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
The outrage of it, illegal alien felons not being housed properly. Those troops voluteered to live in tents Richard. It is just like camp over there.
There is nothing wrong with tents, they are perfectly suitable housing. What does one want for free? Oh I forgot, a Fannie Mae HUD home. Can you imagine that this stupid organization made home loans to illegal aliens?
September 9th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Cliff,
Did you forget to close your blockquote on that email you quoted? I got the same email and it didn’t include the “is unencumbered enough by integrity to host such an offense to public transparency…” part. The email came from Mr. Spencer’s campaign.
You know of course that Sutherland put this event on as part of their regularly held blogger briefings. They are the only policy agenda organization in Utah that I know of that is so open to bloggers as to provide a regular briefing with special events such as this debate. For you to accuse them of an “offense to public transparency” is the height of ignorance.
I disagree with Sutherland Institute on many topics but they understand the value of the blogging community better than most. Apparently they even understand it better than the self proclaimed “biggest and second oldest” blog in Utah.
You owe Sutherland Institute an apology.
September 9th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Wow, Thanks Jeremy. I’m goimg too fast.
September 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Cliff, we are only trying to build UT’s blogging community with these blogger events. You were invited, btw.
September 11th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Mr. Honda didn’t call Jason Chaffetz to find out what he thought. He decided to publicly blast him, based on what he was told by La Raza. (According to what Mr. Honda said publicly on the Doug Wright show).
Well I watched the debate. It was posted on youtube by Bennion’s side. I really loved that Jason was willing to support a bill from Mattheson and he didn’t care who got the credit. We could use some more Reps like that.
On the other hand, instead of fixing legal immigration, Mr. Honda is sponsoring a bill with Sen. Clinton to spend $600,000,000.00 to provide education and employer incentives to hire immigrants.
September 11th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Oh really Arc? Incentives to hire immigrants? Would that be legal or illegal ones?
Perhaps you could provide the reference for that feature…Chaffetz pamphlet not acceptable.
And why on earth would a veteran Congressman, telephone a BIGOTED Republican CANDIDATE running in the most conservative enclave in the world (outside of Pakistan).
And what’s the debate about who said what? Is there any question Chaffetz is a bigot? Isn’t that how he beat Cannon, by being a new, bigger, fresher, better bigot?
It is time Utahns find out why Utah cannot afford another bigot in Congress. The House will have a strong democratic majority in January, and as such, a Far-Right-Wing-Republican-Punk from Utah wouldn’t be able to produce even a scrap of bacon for Utah.
September 11th, 2008 at 9:34 am
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110QFR9JT:e50153:
has the 600M of funding. for the bill being sponsored by Honda/Clinton.
You can listen to Honda’s comments, from KSL Radio saying he hadn’t read anything from jason or spoke to jason before condeming Jason. He said his source was La Raza.
http://real.ksl.com/video/slc/2/253/25350.mp3
My source was
http://www.jasonforcongress.com
Calling someone a bigot because you don’t agree with their fix of a complex issue is childish.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Arc, agreed to your last point. Cliff is, once again, typically over the top in his hyperbole. Nazi? That’s ridiculous. Cliff demeans through a label…without the benefit of defining the label. He should live by the measuring stick of, in this case, “Nazi is as Nazi does.” Not, as he is prone to do, “Republican=Nazi” or some other generalization.
Having said that, there is much about the anti-immigration crowd that is nativist (maybe racist) in their thinking…NOT nativist or racist in their character that I have seen generally, but in their thinking specifically. This manifests itself mostly in their objectification of illegal immigrants. (BTW, some Utah businessmen do the same thing…they see illegal immigrants as only “workers”…while the antis see them only as “criminals.”)
I think labels are a very healthy rhetorical tool in a public dialogue…AS LONG AS we define the label. Again, my experience has been that Cliff & Co. on this blog are very poor at defining the labels they hurl at people.
BTW, we all are poor at this exercise at times, especially when we’re heated over some political or policy matter that is dear to us. Even so, we need to get better at 1) using labels constructively, and 2) defining them correctly.
Interstingly, this point about defining labels correctly is at the heart of another point I made on this blog site about conservatives being tougher on their own than liberals…we conservatives define the hell out of things because our worldview has a defined purpose that liberalism does not share.
September 11th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Paul,
I reject the notion that use of the word ‘Nazi ‘ is hyperbole much less, “demeans through a label…without the benefit of defining the label”
I MEAN to use the term to characterize people like Chaffetz, Buttars, Cannon et. al. as well as to reference to the style of Authoritarianism created by the Nazis and being pursued by the Neocons.
Perhaps, Paul, you think of ‘Nazi’ as some enigmatic phenomena of messianic evil, and/or perhaps you are not paying attention to the striking parallels.
Either way, to suggest that the label is hyperbolic is dangerously uninformed.
September 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
First of all, it really is important to clarify a position before you make a statement such as Honda’s without letting the person defend himself. No matter what your position in congress. Second, it’s really important to realize that these “tent cities” are only to be used for ILLEGAL immigrants who refuse to deport themselves. And, the first part of Chaffetz’s plan is to fix the legal immigration system to make it easier for those who want to be here legally to enter. It’s not race that’s the issue here, it’s the legality of the citizen. This benefits America and the immigrants that come here. With the rights of citizenship they will have a voice in their community, better working conditions and pay. I don’t see how that is bad at all.
September 11th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Paul,
Thanks for reason. I have met those that I consider unfair in their attitude. It wasn’t Jason. I was at a community council meeting in Rose Park. People were wanting to turn down a development because they were afraid a latino store might move in.
Cooler heads won. Carlton Christensen helped.
You are going to have some of those - not cooler heads - vote for someone. In this case, a few of them will vote for Jason, but I think it is unfair to say that Jason, or all of those voting for him are racist.
September 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Cliff, I’m not shocked that you disagree with me…after all, that’s your job, isn’t it? (Although I am shocked that you have not privately apologized to me for calling me a liar. Truly, I feel bad that there doesn’t seem to be that ounce of humility or humanity in you.)
And, friend, I am sorry to hear you say that you really DO mean to call Chaffetz, Cannon, Buttars all Nazis. You might have a mental illness that is in need of serious and immediate attention — honestly. And that saddens me. I hope you get professional help or have someone you trust, who is sane, to talk to.
September 11th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Given your above quote, Cliff, I assume that you’ll stop attacking Ms. Palin for pursuing Federal funds for the City of Wasilla. Right?
September 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Looks like you’re on to something here Cliff! They’re already pulling out the last resort arguments:
Take your meds/Big Pharma anti-depressants and wait for the goosestepping like a good American.
September 11th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Cliff Nazis killed people, suppressed speech, rounded up mental defectives and Jews, gypsies and other “undesireables” and either worked them to death or killed them outright. They acted in the takeover of the entire German economy, had real companies manufacture excellent weapons. In addition to the actual conquest of many nations, there is the simple fact they were very, very, good at it.
We are very happy the Russians bore the brunt of it.
The social aspect of their power is only a single part of their terrifying success. To equate Buttars et al to nazis, is ridiculous. The true nazis would have sent their dumb asses to the Russian front.
Your use of it in describing those you disagree with, in what amounts to social policy, is more than hyperbole, it is dangerously ignorant.
September 11th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Glenn (Oprah),
Nazis were Nazis long before they did all those unspeakable things. It took 8 years of Nazi rule before the atrocities began.
I believe the Nazi Party came to power in 1933. They began killing Jews about TEN YEARS later.
Don’t think of Nazi as simple murderers, they were a popular political movement dependent upon an uninformed populous in the most industrialized country.
There are more similarities with our Republican party than you are acknowledging.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Wrong Cliff.
The murder of mental defectives, gays, undesirables began in ‘33
Rohm and the Brown Shirts were eliminated by murder in the Night of the Long Knives, in June 30-July 2 of ‘33.
The rounding up of gypsies began in ‘33, they were killed then, and in 1940 en masse.
I find it interesting that Jewry, of which you are a part, have limited knowledge of how it all really went. Though the part involving Jews is a constant story and certainly most highlighted.
There were the riots in the streets, the murders and beatings, intimidation etc. etc.
I will leave it to the reader to note the similarities here with the republican party.
In addition guns were removed from the law abiding populace in a manner reminiscent of what you might tend to do if you were in power. Which won’t happen, because you need a gun to do that. Lot’s of guns. Americans still have LOTS of guns, so no matter what any party does…they fear, which is how it should be.
Government fears the People, that’s Democracy.
People fear the government that’s Fascism.
Indeed the rhetoric of nazis in their social agenda, education, speech control more resembles progressivism than any republican dogma. It was when Hitler was emboldened that the window dressing came off.
Please do not reference Iraq, etc., etc., as by now Democrat complicity in supporting and funding this war, gives them no quarter to point fingers at anyone.
It is for sure a measure of hypocrisy that all Americans recognize, and in no small part will contribute to their defeat in November.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Consider the Nazis stance on eugenics, and compare that with Palin and her pro choice position, so firm, that she kept her Downs’ Syndrome child, and will no doubt treasure it, like any other of her children. She can’t be rolled, and though you may dislike, even hate what she stands for, she sure as hell, is no NAZI!!
Yeah, I can see how you get the comparisons there Cliff.
Jesus buddy, you are in the tall grass.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
OO:
And you are living in the past!
September 11th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
It would be interesting to compare the Nazis and White Jim Crow atrocities in 1933.
It is hard to distinguish much difference.
As you describe Glenn/Oprah, the Nazis, was status quo in a less evolved world.
You must behold history at once fluid wilst in context lest you surrender to whim and ‘fanci. ‘
September 11th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Albert, There is nothing new under the Sun, except for history you don’t know. In your case it can fill books. Start reading. The past is the future, they are inextricably linked. They are one and the same. That is why if you don’t know the past and respect its lessons, you end up in summer school, or taking the grade over.
Cliff; If the republican were like Nazis, you as a Jew, would already be compromised.
Rather instead, we see the republican party as staunch defenders of Israel, in that they give her money, weapons, and ideological support, CONSTANTLY.
As you live a fairly privileged life, complete with all rights granted by the Constitution, money, a home, a business, they ability to spout anything you like, this website, I will stand by this statement that your comparison is quite ridiculous.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Anal Orifice:
How many times do I have to tell you not to eloquently obfuscate! Although the Democrats have opted to fund this war, (probably as a result of some new law passed after Vietnam), they were not anywhere near as “complicit” as the Republicans in rushing us to war! It’s obvious from your previous post that you deeply admire the Nazis!
Obfuscate! Cliff is giving you that ability for free.
Coward!
September 11th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
“You must behold history at once fluid wilst in context lest you surrender to whim and ‘fanci. ‘
Spoken like a person that uses their interpretations to fluidly contribute to the sophistry of their political views.
“It would be interesting to compare the Nazis and White Jim Crow atrocities in 1933″.
Sign of the Lyon ass whipped, the fancied “subject change”
September 11th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
OO:
Indeed, and yet here you are doing everything in your power to ensure that we have four more years of the failed policies of the past. Congratulations! You should be proud.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Anal Orifice:
Once again in English, lest I send you to Mexico!
September 11th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Admire? Larry once again, WTF?
Can anyone, in any way claim that they were not very good at what they did? They were so admired in fact, and deemed needed, that the US government brought thousands here after the war, in Operation Paperclip.
This was done during a DEMOCRAT administration.
Whatever you say Larry, at this stage of the game, 8 years in, the Democrats have no legs to stand on concerning the Iraq war.
September 11th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I do what I do to shine the light on bunch of people that view themselves as morally superior, yet do not have the acumen, or the sand, nor the intelligence to defeat people they claim wish to destroy them.
It is really quite pathetic.
Refute any of it.
September 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
OO:
You are a pathetic coward. You do not have the balls to say on line who you would rather see in office come January - Obama or McCain, the only realistic choices that will be presented in November. Surprise us all. Choose one and defend the choice.
Just try and defend this, OO:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/11/ready-to-lead-palin-doesnt-know-what-the-bush-doctrine-is/
September 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
glenn:
From your article:
These people had names, did they not?
September 11th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Hit a nerve did I Sunny Jim?
I guess you didn’t see last night who I would vote for.
Besides, it isn’t really any of your business. Frankly, I will likely vote for McCain simply so we can have gridlocked government. I don’t support McCain policy, but I certainly do not support Obama policy, but this will effectively slow the Fed way down, if the Democrat majority grows a spine and gets off its knees. The 3 branches of government cannot be allowed to be all run by the same party. It’s bad for us.
It is up to democrats when McCain is elected whether we will have a continuation of bush policy. My hope is for dysfunctional gridlock.
So she doesn’t know what the bush doctrine is. Who does? Is that relevant, explain?
Here Larry Hope this makes you happy. The article was also posted on counterpunch.org
September 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
OO:
This is so you! The wandering nothingness of your comments is now explained!
September 11th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
For nothing it sure turns your crank.
Given the worthlessness of the candidates, it is the best we can hope for. The only one with any potential is Palin, and that is because the public likes her. Most important in a democratic leader.
September 11th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Your fucking high, dude. Get some help!
September 11th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Look, you are the people losing it.
It is so silly, most of this is for your benefit. I should run peoples campaigns, it is very easy, at least in the case of Democrat adherents, to induce them to losing emotional control.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Anal:
So what’s your point? The Jews sent us to space?
I haven’t given Counterpoint much credence since they had one of their top people on KRCL trying, (and I repeat “trying” to discount the 911 “conspiracies”.) KRCL also had somebody on who completely and utterly put the issue to rest. Our government either participated in,or allowed 911 to happen, and these dirty bastards have the audacity to play a 911 tear jerker at the Republican convention.
Even these scum have names!
September 11th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
No Larry, Werner Von Braun the NAZI, sent us to space. READ! The point is the NAZIS were brought into this country by DEMOCRATS. It speaks to the no difference thing Larry.
So let me see, counterpunch denies the conspiracy, yet you complain that the PaperClip truth, which has been thoroughly researched is a conspiracy. Perhaps you should do some work. Why not start with filmed interviews with Von Braun himself. Very easy, requires no reading comprehension.
Does the BBC work for you or not? Are you unaware of how politics works Larry? A party APPEALS to its constituents and like minded people so it can WIN.
Does it have to be spelled out?
September 11th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Who are the “like minded” people you’re APPEALING to ASSHOLE. The nameless?
That’s what I thought. Race and religion, (or lack of), means NOTHING. There are good Jews and bad Jews. Good Germans and bad Germans. Good Mormons and bad Mormons. The good ones have names and are not afraid to know who really won an election. The bad ones are cowards who want to keep everything secret.
Period!
September 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
So you have now come completely off your hinges.
I guess you don’t understand how politics works. The people say what is needed to say in order to WIN. In that process you appeal to like minded people.
Something rather like bringing nazis into the country in order to WIN the Cold War. This was what happened under the post war Democrat administration. Completely amoral, for purely selfish reasons. If you read the article you would know that Herr Werner von Braun, responsible for the development of our ballistic missile force and the moon shot, was an SS officer.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Orifice. The Great Equilibrator.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
How spectacularly lazy.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
I do not see you refuting a single thought Cliff. We let the reader decide.
Better to work smart, than hard, my boy.
For a person, in your form, I have never seen do physical labor, that is pretty funny.
September 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Shithole said:
My aching scalian ass!
September 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Do you think it otherwise Larry?
Do you not recall Obama promising to remove our forces from Iraq upon election early on, and now he equivocates?
No party can remove our forces from Iraq, because to a great degree, they are there to stay. Iraq is to be the forward fire base for the future conflict with Russia over the Caspian, that has been planned for years. By Brezezinski and crowd. Foreign policy mentor for Mr. Obama.
Do you recall his promise to bomb Pakistan and escalate that conflict if it is necessary? He isn’t saying much about that now is he?
To clear it up for you in terms you can understand.
Noun(obama) verb(speaks) lies.
September 11th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
McCain; Truthteller!
September 11th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Jason Chavetz; Truthteller!
September 11th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
No Larry, you still don’t get it. They all lie. Like rugs. If we wreck their ability to legislate by keeping them at odds with one another…we the People, win.
Scale back your dreams of what you think these cretins will do for our country and get to the business any way you can, of improving life in America for yourself and your friends, in the State you live in. The Fed is on its way to the dustbin of history. It has always been the locales of America that have made her great.
That is the focus and historical path of America. It cannot be altered without destroying the country.
September 11th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
By letting Republicans retain all branches of government, stealing elections?
September 11th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Boy, I hesitate to jump in here, being ‘nameless’ and a coward and all, but somebody wrote on this very blog the other nite, might even have been our very own, much dissed, coyote name-prankster, something to the effect of; when the insanity that has been propagated for the past, oh let’s say 8 or 10 years (you know what I’m talkin’ ’bout), begins to take hold, no-one will be immune.
So can we get back to the Rapture? With Palen, Bush and all the others of the fold, restored to thier heavenly mansions, things here might mellow some thereafter.
Goodnite truthtellers all.
September 12th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Something to the effect of? I’m sorry , but I really DON’T know what you’re talking about.
And believe me, I’ve tried.
September 12th, 2008 at 4:55 am
Try (short list):
Voting machine manipulation / ‘errors’
Shot in the face
Emission accamplished
Family values
“Heck of a job (insert name here)”
Etc and my favorite
Impeachment off the table!
Then, the assessment: if you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention! Well the same could be reflected in our mental health. What, me worry?
Hang in there Larry.
September 12th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Uh, Larry this is why you will be generally spinning your wheels, which is OK, your right in this great country. Isn’t there an empty street corner with your name on it that should be attended?
The Democrats hold majorities in the House and Senate. Were those elections rigged to give you those majorities? Power only works if you do something with it. Your problem is Pelosi, Kennedy, and the rest of the entrenched party that is old and tired, and needs replacement. You know how I feel about Dean.
Hang in there Larry, and try not to be disappointed by the one man one vote thing.
Try not to be disappointed by the absolute right of anonymity in voting and politics in the USA. You want to declare, it is all you buddy. In fact I do believe it was the Nazis, and the Soviet Union that enforced your desire that all political expression be out in the open.
Sidenote: Did you know in England not too long ago, university graduates were granted more than one vote? Did you attend university Larry? If you dislike the fact that perceived idiots can vote, do you think you would make the grade? Why? Explain.
September 12th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Wow…disappear for 24 hours and OO manages to burst a blood vessel in the heads of Larry, Cliffy and Albert. What a torrent of invective, gentlemen. Goodness.
September 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Just doin’ my job.
As Cliff likes to say, it is all there as a permanent record.
We can’t all be one if we all goosestep to the same progressive tune now can we?
September 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
You can’t even get the right video, glenn.
September 12th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Just being current, that was from some crappy TV show, I think. Been over two years since I watched any TV regularly.