Richard WarnickLive Flogging: McCain Wins Debate!
Well, not in reality. He won it in McCain World, where this morning McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declared: “McCain won the debate– hands down.” Of course, the actual real-world presidential debate doesn’t take place until tonight.
The subject of the first debate between Senators Obama and McCain will be U.S. foreign policy. The winner will be the candidate who can offer what most voters want. Hint: it’s not a 100-year occupation of Iraq.
There’s no shortage of international crises to match the domestic economic fiasco. The occupation of Iraq continues, with heavy fighting in Mosul, insurgent bombs and ambushes in and around Baghdad, and a cholera epidemic. We just learned that a few months ago Israel asked the U.S. for a green light to bomb Iran. Yesterday, the U.S. Army and the Pakistani Army exchanged warning shots on the Afghan border. Somali pirates have seized six ships this month, including a Ukrainian vessel loaded with T-72 tanks– and the U.S. Navy says they can’t stop it because their task force is spread too thinly.
Some recent data from a survey by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs suggest that the public is looking for a candidate who can lay out a new strategy for America’s role in the world.
When asked about the importance of various foreign policy goals, the top priority in the public’s eyes is improving America’s standing in the world, followed by protecting the jobs of American workers.
The so-called “Global War on Terror” came in fifth place.
McCain isn’t promising anything new or different from the Bush foreign policy, unless you’d like to have more wars.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Who’s up for live blogging tonight? The debate is at 7pm on all networks. I’ll be watching MSNBC.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
When the ‘Merkin people have adjusted to the trillion-plus cost of bailing out the rich wall street bankers, they can then have their sights shifted towards rebuilding their antiquated, over-extended, under-equipped and recently riddled with bullet holes, military. I’m preparing a massive check as we write.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
ME ME ME. I’m up for live Flogging tonite. You host the post?
September 26th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Yep. Let’s get started.
They’re already giving out McCain’s excuse for poor performance tonight. He was busy trying to put Country First(TM) and didn’t have time to prepare while also saving our economy…
September 26th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
For the first time ever, I’m getting a box that pops up saying “Authentication Required.”
September 26th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I finally hit “cancel” and the box stopped coming up…
September 26th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
First question…
The foundation of military strength is economic strength… Where do you stand on the financial recovery?
September 26th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Obama is on first. We’ve heard a lot about Wall Street, what about Main Street? …Proposals: (1) oversight, (2) upside for taxpayers, (3) no golden parachutes and (4) help people struggling to pay mortgages. We can’t shred regulations, give more to the wealthy and hope it will trickle down.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
McCain– We’ve finally seen Republicans and Democrats sitting down together… Package needs to have changes… House Republicans left out of the negotiation. This is the end of the beginning, let’s eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Obama– Warned about mortgage crisis two years ago… How is it we shredded so many regulations? It’s because of a philosophy that says regulation is always bad.
McCain– Eisenhower’s D-Day letter of resignation in case of the failure of the Normandy invasion. Need accountability, people need to be held accountable.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
McCain– America is still the biggest producer, importer and exporter.
[Demonstrably false. Germany is the world's biggest exporter].
Evils of earmarking, root of all corruption. Study DNA of bears in Montana. I will veto and you will know their names. Obama has requested $1 million a day in earmarks during his Senate career.
Obama– Earmarks have been abused. Lobbyists and special interests often introduce these– that wasn’t the case with me. $300 billion in tax cuts won’t be offset by cutting $18 billion in earmarks. The policies of President Bush that John McCain wants to follow won’t help average Americans.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
McCain– $18 billion is a lot, and it’s tripled in recent years. Obama wants to raise taxes for expensive new programs. I want to cut spending, I want to keep taxes low.
Obama– We can’t afford a continuation of the last eight years.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Cliff, where you at??
September 26th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
McCain– $5,000 for every family to go out and purchase health care.
[Health insurance will cost them at least $15,000 a year]
Obama– Business taxes are high on paper, but because of loopholes the effective tax rate is one of the lowest in the world. McCain won’t close the loopholes. McCain for the first time in history is going to tax employer-provided health care. It’s not a good deal for the American people.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Obama is whipping McCains BUTT!
September 26th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
McCain– Obama voted for energy bill, giveaways to oil companies. Obama has voted to increase taxes on people who make as low as $42,000 a year… you can look it up.
Obama– Not true.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
As President, what are you going to have to give up in order to pay for the “financial rescue plan”? [Better known as the Bailout]
September 26th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Obama– Goes down list of proposals, things we have to do. Make college affordable, rebuild infrastructure, alternative energy supply… Eliminate programs that don’t work.
McCain– Cut spending. Obama has most liberal voting record in the Senate, it’s hard to reach across the aisle that far to the left! No more cost-plus contracts for defense spending. Control cost overruns. Talks about Boeing tanker contract he killed. [McCain forgot to mention that DOD had to go back to Boeing later, after the alternative didn't work]
September 26th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
McNeill– I didn’t hear either of you name major cuts for bailout.
Obama– “Google for government,” web list of earmarks and spending.
McNeill– What to cut?
McCain– Spending freeze! Cut everything except defense and veterans.
Obama– Why are we spending $10 billion a month in Iraq?
September 26th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
McCain– Obama has $800 billion in new spending programs. He ought to cut some of that. We owe China $500 billion because spending is out of control. I have fought my entire career to stop wasteful spending.
Obama– McCain voted for almost of all Bush’s budgets with record deficits. It’s kind of hard to swallow.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
McCain– I voted against Bush on spending, torture of prisoners… [He didn't] I’m a maverick [He isn't].
September 26th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
What are the lessons of Iraq?
McCain– I told them in 2003 needed a new strategy. Finally, we got a new general and a new strategy. Succeeded. Out troops will come home and not in defeat. We will have a stable ally. Withdrawal would have given Iran too much influence, sectarian violence.
Obama– Should we have gone to war in the first place? No, Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda were ignored. I wish I had been wrong. We’re spending $1 trillion, lost 4,000 dead and 30,000 wounded. Al-Qaeda is still there as we spend $10 billion a month in Iraq. We have to use our military wisely, and we did not.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
McCain– Obama never asked for a meeting with General Petraeus, has never had a hearing. Won’t agree “surge” was a good idea.
Obama– Violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops. A tactic designed to contain the damage of the previous four years. At the time the war started, McCain said it would be quick and easy. No WMD, not greeted as liberators, etc.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
McCain– Obama doesn’t know the difference between a tactic and a strategy. Refuses to acknowledge that we are winning in Iraq. Clearing and holding, peace and prosperity. Same strategy will be deployed in Afghanistan by this great general. Obama voted to cut funding for the troops.
Obama– I opposed funding a blank check for George Bush with no timetable. I absolutely understand the difference between tactics an strategy. We have seen Afghanistan deteriorate for lack of troops and resources. McCain was wrong to advocate shifting the focus to Iraq. We need to give Iraq back its country. In 16 months, we can withdraw and bolster our efforts in Afghanistan. Admiral Mullen says need more troops there.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
McCain– Admiral Mullen didn’t say that. If we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and adopt Obama’s Iraq plan, we’ll lose in Afghanistan too.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
McCain is SUCH a LOSER!!!!! Crusty old dog politician for crusty old unhappy people…he might win Florida
September 26th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
What are the lessons of Afghanistan?
Obama– We cannot separate Afghanistan from Iraq. We have four times the number of troops in Iraq, where nobody had anything to do with 9/11. SecDef Gates says Afghanistan and Pakistan are the central front against terrorism, not Iraq. Bush has given Pakistan $10 billion but they offer safe havens to Al-Qaeda.
McCain– We made a mistake to wash our hands of the region after Soviets driven out of Afghanistan. I won’t threaten Pakistan with aid cutoff or talk out loud about military strikes. I’ve been to Waziristan. It needs a new strategy, the same strategy used in Iraq, get the cooperation of the people.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
McCain: “What Obama doesn’t understand is HOW to win the peace in Afghanistan.”
pitiful
September 26th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Obama– Nobody talked about attacking Pakistan. It’s true Presidents have to be careful what they say, but McCain talked about extinction for North Korea and sang a song about bombing Iran. We supported Musharraf’s anti-democratic regime, alienated the people of Pakistan.
McCain– I was right about Lebanon, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. I have a record on the tough decisions. Iraq must succeed or the deaths of Americans are in vain. [This is the sunk cost fallacy] We don’t want defeat. I know from Vietnam how hard it is to recover from defeat.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
McCain:
Yep, and you fucked up
September 26th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Obama– No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain, they perform their missions admirably. But the mission has to be the right mission. McCain once said we could “muddle through” Afghanistan. You don’t muddle through the central front in the war on terror.
McCain– Why didn’t Obama go to Afghanistan or hold hearings? General Petraeus says we will suffer defeat in Iraq if we adopt Obama’s set date for withdrawal. That will cause defeat in Afghanistan too.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Obama reminds McCain that he said.
McCain responds by saying “he’s been there and knows…”
September 26th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
League of Democracies - by John McCain.
Sounds like an economic cartel to force democracy through sanctions. Never mind the human suffering and insane premise of such tried and failed attempts…Iraq Oil for Food being the most recent example.
Cut off Russia, Iran? brilliant.
Obama: “Sanctions breed nuclear armament.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
What is your reading of the threat from Iran?
McCain– Existential threat to Israel, no second holocaust should be allowed. Arms race in the region. [Um, but Iran hasn't got a nuclear weapons program] Sanctions will cause Iranian economic collapse because they’ve got a lousy government and a bad economy. Developing nuclear weapons [Not] and training Iraqi insurgents [Probably].
Obama– Iran Republican Guard is a terrorist organization. Iran’s mortal enemy was Iraq, cleared away thanks to our policy over the last eight years. Nuclear Iran would be a game-changer, threaten Israel and set of an arms race. Need cooperation from Russia and China, major trading partners. Tough, direct diplomacy with Iran necessary. This notion that by not talking to people we are punishing them is something we have to get away from.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
McCain is losing it. Saying “the point is…” too often.
A cover for dementia.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Hammered on the Kissinger contradiction to speak with Iran.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
McCain– I’ll sit down with anybody, there have to be preconditions so we don’t legitimize dictators like Ahmadinejad.
Obama– Ahmadinejad isn’t the most powerful person in Iran, may not be the right person to talk to. One of McCain’s own advisers, Henry Kissinger advocates talks without preconditions. I was called naive when I suggested we ought to explore contacts with Iran, but Bush is now doing it. If it doesn’t work, we strengthen our ability to form alliances. Look what happened when we disengaged from North Korea. The Bush administration had to reverse course. McCain recently said he wouldn’t meet with the Prime Minister of Spain– a NATO ally.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~ Its dangerous…North Korea huge Gulag ~
September 26th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
OLD and TIRED
September 26th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
McCain– I’m not going to set the White House visitor schedule before I’m elected. Kissinger never said that, he was talking about low-level contacts.
Obama– No preconditions doesn’t mean no preparation or no preliminary low-level talks. It means we can’t solve every problem prior to having talks. Kissinger did say no preconditions.
McCain– Kissinger would not say that in regard to top-level Presidential talks. You are parsing words, my friend.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Russia- enemy or partner?
Obama– Need to work with Russia to control loose nukes. We have to recognize the national security interests of the United States of America. Can’t look into Putin’s eyes and get too friendly.
McCain– Naive for Obama to say both side ought to show restraint. I looked into Putin’s eyes, and saw three letters: KGB. McCain pronounced Saakashvili correctly, links Georgia and Ukraine. Wants to be allies with countries about to be attacked by Russia.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I have to take a break. Akismet is sending too many comments to spam (repeat same username, I guess).
September 26th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I’m callin it. McCain’s gonna dump Palin and choose Liebermann
September 26th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
What is the danger of another 9/11 attack?
McCain– Less than right after 9/11. We are safer, have a long way to go. Improvements needed before we can declare America safe. Secure borders. Better-trained interrogators will make sure we don’t torture anyone ever again [Except McCain voted to legalize torture].
Obama– Al-Qaeda is in 60 countries, we have to stop focusing on Iraq. Our reputation in the world has suffered because of Iraq, it cripples our ability to get cooperation against A-Qaeda.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
McCain– If we followed Obama’s withdrawal plan for Iraq, we would lose the war on terror. Al-Qaeda would have a base in Iraq.
Obama– Bush has made Iraq the only priority. Bin Laden is still out there, Al-Qaeda is resurgent. China is gaining power at our expense. We are hurting our economy by spending $10 billion a month in Iraq. We are not taking care of our veterans. We cannot maintain military superiority while our economy is in decline. The next President has to have a broader strategic vision than we’ve had for the last eight years.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
That’s all, folks. Who won the debate?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
McCain: “As president of the united states, I know how to heal the wounds of war”
Great. Elect the war monger
September 26th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Snippets of commentary on MSNBC: McCain was condescending, but he was making an argument based on experience in a change election, with 80 percent of the electorate saying the county is on the wrong track.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
More commentary: Obama agreed with McCain on a few things, but McCain framed a lot of his answers as partisan attacks on Obama. Obama surrogate Linda Douglas says it shows who’s serious about being bipartisan.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Olbermann is on now. McCain got the name of the President of Pakistan wrong, and admitted that the Bush administration has tortured prisoners. Oh, and McCain didn’t wear a flag pin!
September 27th, 2008 at 2:02 am
I’m getting an authentication box too, and I can’t get rid of it by pushing cancel. It keeps coming back.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Larry, you’re right. The box goes away when you cancel, but it comes back when you re-load.
Check out the Think Progress debate live blog– it has everything, including video of McCain trying to pronounce “Ahmadinejad.”