Archive for category Abu Ghraib
Harry Truman’s Choice and the Defenders of Torture
Posted by Glenden Brown in Abu Ghraib, Bush Administration, This Blog, Torture on December 11, 2009
The fact that people are seriously arguing that the US can torture prisoners is deeply troubling. It occurred to me that we can look at our own history – sending Japanese Americans to internment camps during World War Two, centuries of stealing Native American’s their land and sending them off to reservations and stealing their children and sending them to “Indian Schools” - and identify actions which are unambiguous historical and national crimes, but we can also identify far more ambiguous examples of a difficult, even horrific, moral calculus.
By 1945, it was clear that Japan was not going to emerge victorious from the war – there were simply too many factors working against them. However, it was also clear that a victory would come only after long and difficult battles. Harry Truman, thrust into the presidency unexpectedly and frankly unprepared (FDR never much cared for Truman but accepted him as VP to maintain party unity) was faced with horrible options.
The obvious option was an invasion of Japan. Despite heavy bombing, the Japanese mainland had been left relatively functional (for instance food continued to be shipped internally). In preparing for an invasion, the Allies would have stepped up attacks on transportation systems in the Japanese islands. Breaking the back of Japan’s national transportation infrastructure, would have plunged the Japanese population into mass starvation (as it was, there was widespread famine in Japan in 1946). Japan’s governing junta was prepared to put citizens on the frontlines of an invasion. An invasion of the Japanese homeland could easily have cost a million Allied soldiers and millions of Japanese citizens (I’ve read one article that estimated as much as 10% of Japan’s civilian population killed in battle – not counting those killed by starvation and bombing raids). In addition, an invasion of Japan would have almost certainly have resulted in the deaths of all POWs being held by the Japanese. Even faced with such a scenario, Japan’s leaders were convinced they could win a negotiated settlement that would leave them in power.
Truman could have informed the Japanes the US possessed atomic weapons and arranged a demonstration; I’ve never fully understood the reasons for not choosing this option but I also understand that such an option might easily have spurred the Japanese to develop nuclear weapons and then deploy them against the US (IIRC, Japan had two separate efforts to develop atomic weapons but they were hampered by bureacratic infighting).
Truman was concerned about the Soviet Union’s military and territorial ambitions in both Europe and Asia. A quick end to the war with Japan would present opportunities on that front.
Truman opted for the one scenario that seemed most likely to save the most lives: drop atomic bombs on a Japanese city. I once read a description of all the strategic reasons for choosing Hiroshima and Nagasaki but I’m not sure they matter at this point. Truman authorized the use of the atomic bomb against a Japanese city, with plans to drop a second bomb a few days later if the Japanese did not surrender.
As I undersatnd it, Japan’s leaders didn’t fully realize what they were facing; initially they suspected the city had been subjected to an attack using incediary devices or some new bombing strategy and discounted reports that a single bomb could have inflicted the damage the city suffered (their belief concerning the incendiary attack made sense given the massive conflagration that consumed much of Hiroshima). After Nagasaki, Japan’s leaders realized that continued war meant not just military loss but national suicide. Internal Japanese politics – including an attempted military coup – delayed Japan’s surrender a few days. (I never really known but I suspect that the Allies were largley ignorant of Japan’s internal political struggles and circumstance.)
It’s entirely possible that Truman’s choice to use atomic weapons is not morally defensible. The generally accepted explanation seems to hold – and I agree – that the use of such weapons saved millions of lives on both sides by ending the war more quickly. The moral value is that the lost of two hundred thousand lives is preferable to the loss of millions.
The morality of using atomic weapons (and that’s not a phrase you ever expect to write) can only be established within a very specific historical context – the context of a war that had already lasted for years, that promised to last for years more and cost millions of lives and many more casualties.
I’ve chosen this scenario because it really happened and it comes as close to any real world “ticking time bomb” scenario that defenders of torture like to offer. Literally, Japan and the US were aiming guns at each other. The suffering inflicted on the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was every bit as bad as the suffering torture would inflict on an individual. Certainly, if hurting one person is bad, then hurting a hundred thousand is worse.
Torture’s proponents tell us that the use of torture would be limited to circumstances in which it would get information to save lives. Truman’s use of the atomic bomb saved lives.
So, then, you might ask, am I defending the use of torture? Not at all. Even a basic examination of the two situations reveal deep and very differences. The basic moral arguments concerning the two circumstances are radically different. Read the rest of this entry »
Torture Pro Judge Bybee Fails Backbone Test
Posted by Cliff Lyon in Abu Ghraib, Alberto Gonzales, Bush Administration, Bush Failures, Corruption, Hypocrisy, Impeachment, Mormon LDS, Political Corruption, Religion, Republicans, War Crimes on April 25, 2009
Friends Say Judge Wasn’t Proud of Outcome
Via his roommate at BYU, this morning’s Washington Post reports that Torture Memo author Judge Jay Bybee is tortured by self-pity.
“Jay would be the sort of lawyer who would say, ‘Look, I’ll give you the legal advice, but it’s up to someone else to make the policy decision whether you implement it,’ ” said Randall Guynn, who roomed with Bybee at Brigham Young University and remains close.
In other words, “Its not my fault those evil men used my advice to justify torture.” Is Bybee then standing by his legal opinion?
Neither Guynn nor his brother, Steve, who also roomed with Bybee, recalled the judge distancing himself from the memos. But in the years since the first memo became public, Bybee left that sense with some.
Where is the personal responsibility? Where is the moral compass?
Since moving to Utah years ago, I am frequently reminded that without religion there is no morality.
If morality – the sense of right vs wrong — is derived exclusivily from religion, and Bybee’s religious training is straight from the bosum of The LDS Church… Is it possible the training at BYU Law School is at odds with religious doctrine? Or is Bybee a weak-kneed, ambitious, self-serving schmuck with a pretty face?
Bybee’s friends said he never sought the job at the Office of Legal Counsel. The reason he went back to Washington, Guynn said, was to interview with then-White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales for a slot that would be opening on the 9th Circuit when a judge retired. The opening was not yet there, however, so Gonzales asked, “Would you be willing to take a position at the OLC first?” Guynn said.
I can only imagine what must be going on in Bybee’s head. “Dang. I got caught.”
Bybee should take this opportunity to become a ‘man.’ Otherwise, he’s going to face the fasted impeachment in history. Three Senators have already called for his resignation.
What is he waiting for?
Is The Salt Lake Tribune Covering for BYU Grad Jay Bybee?
Posted by Cliff Lyon in Abu Ghraib, American History, Bush Failures, CIA, Conservative Sell-Outs, Crimes, Impeachment, Jason Chaffetz, Political Corruption, Republicans, Rumsfeld, Torture, Tribalism & Blind Obedience to Authority, Utah Politics on April 21, 2009
A first time commenter posted this OneUtah today claiming a Salt Lake Tribune blog deleted it?
A little background on Jay Bybee Says:
I posted this to Glen Warchol’s blog … it was deleted.
Bybee graduated magna cum laude from Brigham Young University in 1977. He earned his Juris Doctor cum laude[5] from BYU’s J. Reuben Clark Law School in 1980. While in law school, he served on the editorial board of the BYU Law Review.
I couldn’t find a post on Glen Warchol’s SLC Crawler related to the recent revelations about Bybee or his torture memo, so it may well be that the comment was removed for being off subject. and probably by someone in a more administrative role at the paper.
I’m not sure how I feel about that. It is certainly their right, but it also reflects a policy of control that is at odds with the value and merit of blogging and open discussion. I will send this off to Glen so he has a chance to respond.
There is a story here though. Not only is it likely that Bybee will be impeachedwhich would be a serious black mark on BYU, but it seems that BYU Law School graduates made up a disproportionate number of Bush era appointees and hires. The Bush administration proved to be an unabashed recruiter of the most dependably right-wing collaborators whose greater value was not so much in their credentials, but rather in their loyalty and reliability in following order without regard for precedent or law.
It should surprise no one that the neocons looked to Utah County for their foot soldiers. After all, Utah County produced Chris Cannon and Jason Chavetz.
BYU Law School has produced some good lawyers, but it has produced at least one celebrated graduate who has subverted his teachings (legal training) for self-interest and promotion and in the process, participated in one of the ugliest episodes in American and World history.
Judge Bybee MUST be impeached and then indicted for his role in the administration’s violation of domestic and international law. He should also be ‘judged’ for not speaking out for his Country when he had the opportunity.
Faith Based Torture
Posted by shane in Abu Ghraib, American People, Bush Administration, Bush Failures, Guantanamo, Human Rights, Terrorism, This Blog, Torture, War Crimes, al Qaeda on March 31, 2009
Because no matter what we do, closing detention centers, electing new blood, or whatever else, we should always remember the times that we failed to do what we knew was right. Those who forget history…
Read the rest of this entry »
61 recidivist ‘terrorists’, actually 18 (maybe)
Posted by Becky Stauffer in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Terrorism, Torture, al Qaeda on January 27, 2009
Wild-eyed right-wingers tossed around this ‘fact’ last week that 61 (suspected) terrorists that were released from Gitmo returned to the battlefield in Jihad against America. Well, it turns out that’s not quite accurate.
. . . a Defense Department spokesman declared: “The new numbers [for recidivists] are, we believe, 18 confirmed and 43 suspected of returning to the fight. So 61 in all former Guantanamo detainees are confirmed or suspected of returning to the fight.” Many news organizations did the math – 18 plus 43 equals 61 -but negligently failed to include the important qualifier “suspected” for the “43” figure. Moreover, there is reason to doubt the accuracy of even the “18” figure the Pentagon seems more sure about.
As a commenter on television said, even if this number is correct, it pales in comparison to the thousands recruited as a result of abuse and torture conducted at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo — the best recruiting tool al Qaeda has.
Let them use Oxbow
Posted by Glenden Brown in Abu Ghraib, Bush Administration, Bush Failures, Crimes, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, War Crimes on January 26, 2009
Listening to the various hysterical declarations about the impending release of the prisoner from Guantanamo Bay has made me wonder: When did we Americans become a bunch of bed-wetting, teddy bear needing, blanket clutching crybabies?
For cripes sake, there were actual National Socialists soldiers in POW camps in the US during WWII and the American people carried about our actual daily activities. The mere idea that an accused terrorist (mind you, not actually convicted of terrorism, but merely accused) might show up in their states has some congressional Republicans carrying on in near hysterics about how dangerous it would be and declaring that these accused people would never be allowed in their districts. For an example Read the rest of this entry »
Dick Cheney’s War Crimes?
Posted by Becky Stauffer in Abu Ghraib, Crimes, Dick Cheney, This Blog, War Crimes on December 17, 2008
In the continuing saga of the Project Legacy/Victory Lap interviews, Cheney in an interview may have inadvertently (though he appeared to be proud of it) admitted to committing a war crime — a crime for which the United States has executed criminals in the past. Rachel Maddow covers it:
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Political Healing Begins When Republicans Make Good on Rule of Law
Posted by Cliff Lyon in 9/11, Abu Ghraib, Bush Failures, Proof Bush Lied, Republicans, War Crimes on November 6, 2008
Bush and many others need to be tried in a court of justice. Justice and Rule of Law are the cornerstones of democracy.
And the process began some time ago, driven NOT by democrats, but by good republicans. Here is the list of Republican indictments since 1998.
Lets be honest, the number should at least triple given the rampant corruption under Bush…if good Republicans want to survive the cannibalism happening within the party.
If The GOP wants to restore any of the lost respect, it must show the world what real justice looks like. The good republicans must purge the pond scum and put them behind bars.
Agreed? Ken, JD, Bob, Nixon?
Update: HolyShit! Did anyone see this LT Nixon guys other site?
He says, “We just provide the low-brow approach to political discourse. Join the fun!“
Bush, Limbaugh, Rove, Hannity, O’Reilly, Orrin Hatch, and Ken Bingham were already providing the lower than low-brow. Not sure we need to make up an enemy to go lower.
General Who Probed Abu Ghraib Says Bush Officials Committed War Crimes
Posted by Cliff Lyon in Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan, Crimes, Disgrace to the Military, George W. Bush, Human Rights, Impeachment, Iraq, Proof Bush Lied, Republicans, Rumsfeld on June 19, 2008
By Warren P. Strobel | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — The Army general who led the investigation into prisoner abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison accused the Bush administration Wednesday of committing “war crimes” and called for those responsible to be held to account.
The remarks by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who’s now retired, came in a new report that found that U.S. personnel tortured and abused detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, using beatings, electrical shocks, sexual humiliation and other cruel practices.
“After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes,” Taguba wrote. “The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.”
Taguba, whose 2004 investigation documented chilling abuses at Abu Ghraib, is thought to be the most senior official to have accused the administration of war crimes. “The commander in chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture,” he wrote.
A White House spokeswoman, Kate Starr, had no comment.
Taguba didn’t respond to a request for further comment relayed via a spokesman.
The group Physicians for Human Rights, which compiled the new report, described it as the most in-depth medical and psychological examination of former detainees to date.
Doctors and mental health experts examined 11 detainees held for long periods in the prison system that President Bush established after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. All of them eventually were released without charges.
The doctors and experts determined that the men had been subject to cruelties that ranged from isolation, sleep deprivation and hooding to electric shocks, beating and, in one case, being forced to drink urine.
Bush has said repeatedly that the United States doesn’t condone torture.
“All credible allegations of abuse are thoroughly investigated and, if substantiated, those responsible are held accountable,” said Navy Cmdr. J.D. Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman. The Defense Department responds to concerns raised by the International Committee for the Red Cross, he said, which has access to detainees under military control.
“It adds little to the public discourse to draw sweeping conclusions based upon dubious allegations regarding remote medical assessments of former detainees, now far removed from detention,” Gordon said.
The physicians’ group said that its experts, who had experience studying torture’s effects, spent two days with each former captive and conducted intensive exams and interviews. They administered tests to detect exaggeration. In two of the 11 cases, the group was able to review medical records.
The report, “Broken Laws, Broken Lives,” concurs with a five-part McClatchy investigation of Guantanamo published this week. Among its findings were that abuses occurred — primarily at prisons in Afghanistan where detainees were held en route to Guantanamo — and that many of the prisoners were wrongly detained.
Also this week, a probe by the Senate Armed Services Committee revealed how senior Pentagon officials pushed for harsher interrogation methods over the objections of top military lawyers. Those methods later surfaced in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld didn’t specifically approve of the worst abuses, but neither he nor the White House enforced strict limits on how detainees would be treated.
There was no “bright line of abuse which could not be transgressed,” former Navy general counsel Alberto Mora told the Senate committee.
Leonard Rubenstein, the president of Physicians for Human Rights, said there was a direct connection between the Pentagon decisions and the abuses his group uncovered. “The result was a horrific stew of pain, degradation and … suffering,” he said.
Detainee abuse has been documented previously, in photos from Abu Ghraib, accounts by former detainees and their lawyers and a confidential report by the International Committee for the Red Cross that was leaked to the U.S. news media.
Of the 11 men evaluated in the Physicians for Human Rights report, four were detained in Afghanistan between late 2001 and early 2003, and later sent to Guantanamo. The remaining seven were detained in Iraq in 2003.
One of the Iraqis, identified by the pseudonym Laith, was arrested with his family at his Baghdad home in the early morning of Oct. 19, 2003. He was taken to a location where he was beaten, stripped to his underwear and threatened with execution, the report says.
“Laith” told the examiners he was then taken to a second site, where he was photographed in humiliating positions and given electric shocks to his genitals.
Finally, he was taken to Abu Ghraib, where he spent the first 35 to 40 days in isolation in a small cage, enduring being suspended in the cage and other “stress positions.”
He was released on June 24, 2004, without charge.
ON THE WEB
The Physicians for Human Rights report.
McClatchy’s investigation of Guantanamo Bay detainees.



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